Mitt Romney is a Mormon. That’s a well-known fact. And since it’s a well-known fact, why isn’t anybody talking about it?
Yesterday, when I posted this video clip of “Mormon temple rituals”, I received numerous notes, comments, and Tweets from evangelical Christians telling me how disappointed in me they were. “How dare you post something that is sacred to a lot of people?”
What?
At least 5 times a week I post something that is sacred to somebody or a whole lot of somebodies. The clip wasn’t even making fun of what Mormons do or believe, it simply showcased what they do and what they believe. Yes, some of it was peculiar… and outside of what many consider to be mainstream. But that hardly makes it off limits to discuss. The video didn’t tell us anything about Mormons that we don’t already know, right?
Are we not allowed to talk about Mormons?! I had no idea.
Why can’t we talk about it? Why aren’t Republicans wanting to talk about it? Why does the media shy away from asking questions about it?
Up until 2006, I only voted for Republicans (I was very involved and could tell you a host of stories about my life in DC as a Republican). That said, I know how giddy the GOP, especially those who are evangelicals, become when their candidate talks about their spiritual connection to God.
And I also know that many Christian Republicans like to bash or pick apart the faiths of their Democratic counterparts. President Obama is a prime example. In 2008, Republicans drilled Obama with questions about his faith, about his connections to Rev. Wright, about whether he was a Muslim, and about whether or not he has any real faith. And while some of those people took the conversation way too far, I do think that some of their questions were valid ones. And sometimes, those questions produced good necessary dialogue.
Which is why I don’t understand why people aren’t asking Mitt Romney about his faith. Are they afraid too? Is it the “underpants” thing? Does everybody secretly think he’s a total nut job for believing what Mormons believe?!
I want this to be clear: Mitt’s faith played no role in why I didn’t vote for him. While I disagree with Mormons (and Mitt) on a host of things–from cultural issues to theological ones–I don’t think Mitt’s faith disqualifies him from being president (and if he wins, from being a good president).
That said, I do wish Mitt talked about his faith more, and when he did talk about his faith, I wish he wouldn’t seem so uncomfortable. He seems to know very little about his Mormon faith. Is that a “Mormon thing”? Because a good number of Mormons that I’ve talked at length to seem to know very little about the inner workings of their church. But I digress… For the most part, we don’t know what Mitt believes to be true about God and Mormonism. Because most of his answers or conversations about being Mormon are very vague and usually lack conviction and/or depth.
And another thing, are Christian evangelicals really okay with Mitt’s Mormonism? Yes, I know Franklin Graham wrote a statement and signed his father’s name to it deeming Mormons cool. But are evangelicals really okay with this whole Mormon thing? I’m not saying they shouldn’t be. I’m just saying that they usually aren’t okay with is, so what changed? Why haven’t they drilled Mitt with questions like they did with Obama and Bush and Clinton, etc… Why is Mitt’s faith a non-issue? Because it has to be to win an election?
Is it because they don’t enough about Mormonism to ask questions? Or is it because they know too much about Mormonism and don’t want to ask questions? Is Mitt being protected by some secret Mormon force?
Why, all of a sudden, are Christian Republicans seemingly uninterested in talking about their candidate’s faith? Mitt’s voting record certainly didn’t earn him any “grace” from Christians. Mitt was one of the most liberal governors in the US who morphed into one of the most conservative presidential nominees? I’m not convinced that any of us know who Mitt Romney is or what he really stands for in regards to God… or any other issues for that matter.
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I thought I was the only one who was wondering this.
It seems like most Republicans will disregard faith as long as it’s a Republican they’re voting for. It’s a horrible double standard. I, too, would like to know more of Governor Romney’s personal faith.
But isn’t that true of most Democrats too? They disregard the candidates’s faith as long as he or she is a Democrat?
Hi Debbie!In my context I’m not surrounded by a lot of Democrats. You may be right in that, but in my experience it seems to be more of a Republican blindspot to worry about the faith of the opposite party instead of their own.
Dude… ssshhhhh.. they’re listening.
Republicans and social conservatives grilled Mitt for months during the primary season. If in doubt google AFR and Romney. After the blood settled and the sharks left the area his faith was not nearly as important as his chance of beating Obama. They asked the questions, the answer was it doesn’t matter as a litmus test for political office. To sum up the Right’s thought on his faith can be done in a paraphrase of Luther. “Better to be ruled by a wise Mormon than a foolish Christian.”
Amen, MPT! Amen!! I’ve had so many friends of mine say they’d rather vote for him because his beliefs are “similar” to theirs. WHAT?!?! smh.
I think Republicans aren’t talking about it because they may not want a Mormon, but they sure as heck don’t want Obama. Not to mention many are still unconvinced of Obama’s faith.
Also to answer your question. Yes we should. Some of us have: http://willadair.com/2011/10/11/grace-and-truth-and-mormonism/
EXCELLENT!! I support you in posting the video and in the discussion.Why aren’t evangelicals picking apart Mormonism as they did with the Obama’s faith? Maybe because Evangelical GOPers realize that Romney is NOT the best candidate and his faith would just illuminate that and make him that much more difficult to elect.
I’m surprised that Christians (Osteen) are calling Mormonism Christianity, when the tenants of Mormonism deny the Trinity. It all has me perplexed. Maybe Christians don’t understand the doctrine of their own faith let alone the faith of others. Plenty to think about.
I think the silence is pretty incriminating. The political conversations I’ve had over the last few months have been suspiciously void of reference to either of the candidates’ faiths, primarily because evangelical Christians are not comfortable with his Mormon faith. If faith enters into the equation, they’re forced to come to terms with the fact that they don’t agree with his beliefs. Those who have used that as the center point of their voting habits would then need to question their fierce loyalty to the Republican candidate (the archetype, not Romney himself), and, frankly, that’s not something they really want to do. Heck, as an evangelical Christian myself, if Obama turned out to actually be a Muslim I’d have a real conundrum on my hands.
What REALLY concerns me is the fact that the Graham’s seem to have put politics and loyalty to the Republican party above their faith (whoa, did this guy really just say that?! Not Billy!), and I’m sure they’re not the only ones. It’s evidence of a greater problem: We are drawn to put more faith in politicians/government (or the lack thereof) than our Savior. So, what do we do about that? I have no idea.
Matthew,I think you raise some good questions. There is a curiosity surrounding some of the silence in regards to Mitt’s religion. I would venture to say, as you suggest, that many people simply don’t know what to ask–as Mormonism for most non-Mormons is a bit of a mystery.
However, to disagree, when he was campaigning to win the GOP ticket, there were plenty of people discussing Mormonism. Evangelicals were in a tizzy explaining how they could never vote for him.
For me, however, it all comes down to this: Character and values. I would take an atheist in the White House who holds American values and is a man of moral character over a so-called Christian who lacks both. I know this position might not be popular, but I’m electing a President of the United States, not the Pastor-in-Chief.
Amen and stuff.
I totally agree with what Emily said. I’m not an American so I can’t vote. And that’s probably a good thing because I honestly don’t know who is the “lesser of two evils” so-to-speak. Not that either are EVIL but neither candidate compels me to believe anything in America is going to get better or be led better. There , I said it. You Americans have a problem before you and I don’t know that there is a right answer. But it is a curious thing why so many evangelicals are jumping on the Mormon bandwagon.
Mormons are NOT Christians.
That’s why nobody is talking about it. It’s a nasty fight that dates back to their beginning. They claim to be Christians, they claim to just have a “new” prophecy, but their teachings and books are blatantly false. Yeah, I said it. FALSE. False prophets who have altered the Bible. I’m not saying they need to be persecuted or that Romney can’t run for President or that they shouldn’t be allowed to exist. It’s America. Believe whatever you want.
But for YEARS- DECADES- SINCE THEY STARTED, other Christian denominations have denounced them as non-Christians. The average Mormon, though, doesn’t know or necessarily believe those things that make them not Christians, but it’s in there. And so, yeah. Now, evangelical Republicans are forced to choose between a Democrat and a non-Christian who thinks he’s a Christian Mormon Republican.
They aren’t talking about it because it sucks to be them and they will come across as judgmental and prejudiced about someone who is “different” than them, and that does not win you votes. We have to be tolerant. We have to smile and wave and pretend we all get along.
I’m not running for office, so I’m fine saying this. Mormons are free to believe what they want. In fact, I encourage them to do what I did- read the books. Read the history. Study up what you believe and why. The Truth will reveal itself CLEARLY. But I have and will continue to refute that Mormons are a Christian denomination. They aren’t. I don’t care about this as a political issue, but it has been interesting to watch. We are so nice, so tolerant, and now, we don’t know how to pry open those questions. And those who know the answers, don’t want others to know them because of the political fall out of a religious debate. Hmm… interesting…
In case you were wondering, my politics can be summed up like this: “Hey church, do your job.” I vote, and then I focus back on my calling, doing the work God called me to do. The church, meaning the people of God- not necessarily organized religion- needs to do its job and let the government do its. If the church was doing what it is supposed to do, a LOT of our political issues would be non-issues.
Excellent questions, MPT. Thanks for asking them out loud in this space. I am completely mystified by this silence. And also by the ‘defense’ of the secrecy of their rituals. Anything that calls itself ‘Christian’ needs to be an open book. Anyone can walk into any kind of a Christian house of worship and see for themselves what is believed, what is practiced. Not so for Mormonism and that has always concerned me. I’m not keen on the ‘secret camera’ device – but given the options, how else is it even possible to know what goes on? And how is that we’ve moved so easily from ‘cult’ to ‘legitimate branch of the tree?’ I’m stymied. Except. It is now politically expedient to do so. Wow.
I think Evangelicals don’t want to discuss it because they are caught in a dilemma. They have so heavily entrenched themselves in the false left-right paradigm by always voting Republican, that they now don’t know what to do.
I remember after 9/11, all through desert storm, and then during the ’08 elections that so many Christians were running around saying “The Muslims don’t worship the same God as us: they worship Allah.” Never mind that “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God,” related to the Canaanite word “El” (as in “El-Shaddai” for you Amy Grant fans) and the Hebrew Elohim. The French word for god is Dieu. The German word for God is Gott. In Spanish it’s Dios. Do we say that they worship a different God because they have a different word for God in their language?
A much stronger case can be made for the gods (plural) of Mormonism being different gods from those of Christianity. In Mormon belief, Elohim and Jehovah are different gods. The Holy Spirit is yet another god. Elohim has a physical body, whereas in orthodox Christianity “God is a spirit and has not a body like men.” In Mormonism Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
I’m not saying this to Mormon-bash. I’m just pointing out that evangelicals would have a MUCH easier time distinguishing the Christian God from the Mormon gods than they would distinguishing the Christian God from Allah.
Matthew, shhh… somethings are not to be discussed openly. Plus if you ask these questions, it might make undecided voters vote for Obama, and though being Morman might be an issue, every evangelical-republican knows that voting democratic (especially for Obama who is a muslim) is worse.
Heck, I would vote for an atheist because for one to run for office in the times we live in, it seems to be a prerequisite for all candidates to toss around a certain amount of evangelical buzzwords and kiss up to Rick Warren or whoever the latest pastor du jour is in order to get nominated. At least I could be pretty sure an atheist was being honest about at least ONE thing.
This embracing of Romney, though, I think is just a lot of evangelicals finally showing their true colors. Everybody seems to have forgotten that the #1 reason so many evangelicals voted for GWB (and Sarah Palin and lot of others) was because they were all “good Christians”. (I know because my email inbox was full of this stuff.) Anyone remember that?
Now, suddenly, being a “good Christian” isn’t all that important for a candidate, and it’s all “I don’t care about his religion, I just care about what kind of job he does.” How incredibly bloody convenient.
I have been thinking the same thing the entire time. These same Evangelicals HATED JFK and were “Appalled” that a Roman Catholic would be elected to the Presidency. Romney sure is getting a pass. I think it would be awesome if his “beliefs” would be questioned in a public forum. When I was first being churched, in a Non-Denominational Christian Mega Church (which I have since walked away from…not my Faith in God, but the Church) I remember being taught that Mormonism is based on human lies and is not rooted in Biblical truth, at all. As I’ve studied it and read biographies from those that have *escaped* or been excommunicated, I realize how *Human* and NOT TRUE so much of it is…sure the philosophies behind it are lovely: Family, living above reproach, having a *Mission* for God…but how about the fact that not a SINGLE prediction of Joseph Smith’s has come true? The built in racism, sexism, homophobia…the fact that the founder, Joseph Smith, was himself a known racist and polygamist…are these Christian values? Can anyone just make up a religion, say it has to do with Jesus and they just get a pass??? In all of our hush hush and *tolerance* there is some underlying truth and frightening extremism to Mitt Romney, who doesn’t just believe in his religion, HE WAS A LEADER IN HIS CHURCH. He lives by these “ideals” – and THAT, if you know what he believes in, is TERRIFYING!
Great post MPT! Why are Christians so afraid to ask the questions? Well, not all Christians are afraid to ask. Many of my friends in Traditional Black churches are asking and voting for President Obama (not necessarily because of the Mormonism issue) as well and many of my Catholic friends. The ones I see really avoiding the conversation are the Evangelicals (with a few exceptions).
I wonder if this is because Evangelical Christianity has become dangerously close to the parameters of being a cult. Not in the sense of forfeiting belief in Jesus as Christ, but in their response to government, world issues and community. Really, Mormonism as a lifestyle is very close to the typical right-winged conservation evangelical viewpoint.
It’s ironic how far “Christianity” has veered away from Christ’s teachings. I’m not surprised that the very churches that opposed Mormonism years ago are openly accepting a Mormon candidate, because his values seem to match theirs. The question is really whether his values match Christ’s and furthermore, whether most Christian’s values match Christ’s. The answer…well I think know what that is.
Keep writing…you’re voice is always needed.
The temple ceremonies are well documented and illustrated in a number of books one can find with a modicum of effort. The recording thing rubs people the wrong way because members are asked to turn off all cell phones and not bring any recording devices behind the desk at all. This guy clearly violated the rules, had to lie to do it, etc. Sacred, not secret.
If you really want to know about Mormons, visit mormon.org or lds.org.
Monica, those are Mormon websites. I don’t think we’re going to get the full story from them. Hence, the video. This interview with the guy who recorded the video is telling though. http://tinyurl.com/9pb3gd8
Question everything. Sacred cows? Question more. YouTube secret video of sacred things? Show and discuss, please.
I don’t know which blog you’ve been reading, but I’ve seen you criticized plenty for challenging a variety of the wrong and weird with Christianity. Maybe you’ve gotten used to it. Keep it up. Nothing’s off the table.
As for why evangelicals care? Dunno. Could be construed as a general criticism of their favorite candidate. The religious affiliation of a politician shouldn’t matter, as long as he or she understands separation of church and state and doesn’t allow those religious beliefs to affect policy and judgement. In that case, any pagan, atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Jehovah’s Witness, Muslim, Sikh, etc should be able to hold any political post anywhere. But they shouldn’t be free from scrutiny either.
Posted on FB but the realized this might be the better place for discussion…
I think you may be asking 2 different questions: It seems that the outrage of sharing the video stems from the fact that it was of Mormonism’s “holy of holies” so to speak–something that is purposefully kept away from the public’s eye and under tight lock-and-key because of how sacred it is to the faith. Obviously, to spread a secret tape that uncovers that and explicitly goes against the wishes of those taped can (and should) raise questions about appropriateness. With that said, your question of why we aren’t talking about Mitt’s faith is a fantastic one, and one that needs to be addressed.
This has been baffling me throughout the campaign. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home. Mormonism was described as a cult. I went to a Christian college. Mormonism was labeled a cult. I went to a Christian grad school. Again, Mormonism was a cult. I read a few books about what Mormons believe and much of it is indeed quite odd to me. I am no longer a fundamentalist Christian by any stretch, but my mother is concerned that we need to “turn this nation back to God” and can’t seem to find an answer when I ask her how a “cult member” is going to do that. I believe democrats can’t talk about Mitt’s faith because they are afraid it will bring up the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy again. Republicans can’t talk about Mitt’s faith because if Christians really learned what Mormons believe, they might not vote for him. And to them, a Mormon is better than an Obama any day. I believe they see it as the lesser of two evils, if they are really honest about it.
You’re right, Matthew.
I agree that a president’s faith shouldn’t qualify nor disqualify him. The evidence points to the core reason being that many of us lift up our political affiliation just a little bit higher than our theological affiliation. The fact that so many of my fellow believers will denounce born-again Jimmy Carter but ignore the failings of GW Bush is exhibit A of this.
That said, many of us on the Right have not complained about Romney’s Mormonism before or after he secured the party nomination, and many of us have not said anything about Rev Wright or Islam when it comes to our evaluation of President Obama. You hear from the loudmouths regarding this, but that’s because they are loudmouths. Most of us in the silent majority simply evaluate, and then vote, for the candidate who we think will do a better job of governing. But you don’t hear from us because our main goal is not to be heard.
I liked your comment, James. And it got me wondering about this–
What the heck happened to the “silent majority”? How come the “loudmouths” are being allowed to drive the agenda?
I used to vote Republican. I’d like to vote Republican again if there were someone in that party worth voting for. But I don’t think I can do it because it’s been taken over by the whackjob element.
I initially thought McCain seemed like a pretty decent guy, and I was considering voting for him, but then it became obvious that not only was nobody in the party going to acknowledge the shortcomings of GWB *at all*, but by sticking Palin in there they decided that they were going to take a hard right turn into Looneyville. And it still looks like they haven’t come back.
So, for me anyway, Obama was the lesser of two evils. He’s still looking that way, actually, although as a president I consider him pretty lackluster and he’s done a lot of stuff that’s made me facepalm.
The thing is, if a REAL moderate Republican existed, I’d probably vote for him. But from what I’ve seen, they don’t exist anymore. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
So, if there is this “silent majority” of fairly reasonable right-wingers out there, could they maybe try not to be so silent? What are they doing, anyway? Holding their noses and voting in the extremists anyway?
“… Franklin Graham wrote a statement and signed his father’s name to it deeming Mormons cool…”
??? What evidence can you offer for what otherwise would be a quite libelous statement of yours?
Yeah, I don’t know if this can be proven. But I do share this belief.
It’s glaringly inconsistent with how Billy Graham conducted himself during his ministry and for 90 years of his life. He made an effort to not marry his ministry and politics.
However, the same cannot be said of Franklin Graham. So it’s definitely reading between the lines, but there is reason that a lot of people think this.
You are right Jason. Especially when just last year Billy Graham expressed regret at how often he expressed political opinions in the past. The new statement does not jive. I think most believe Franklin is using his Dad’s influence.
Matthew-
What exactly is it you want to talk about? It doesn’t seem to me you are interested in talking directly to Mormons about anything. Posting illicitly recorded video of a temple ceremony is going to drive away the vast majority of Mormons who see no way to speak objectively or dispassionately to someone happy to engage in such a disrespectful and sectarian bit of emotive rhetoric (it would be an insult to everyone’s intelligence and integrity to pretend it’s anything else–the transcripts of the temple ceremonies are available in the library of congress and online; the video does nothing but amp up the “eww” factor for Evangelicals). If you just want a jam session with other people eager to whine about Mormonism not being Evangelicalism, you don’t need Mitt Romney for that. You don’t seem to have any actual questions, since you’re already declared that you know more than Mitt does about his own religion. What, exactly, is it you want to talk about?
I think what disqualifies Mitt is he believes he will on day be a god equal to God, just on his own planet. I think that can create a level of arrogance, and I don’t want to give someone who thinks he is becoming a deity the amount of power that comes with the presidency.
As a Christian, I’ve been pretty disgusted with various Christian leaders telling me to vote for Romney because he supports biblical values. Well there is this biblical value of idolatry (which includes deifying yourself) that the Bible talks about A LOT. Yet somehow thats not a big problem. Sorry, but I think I’ll go with the candidate that admires ordinary people, instead of one who thinks we’re all a bunch of mooches.
Oh…and I’ll avoid the ticket with the VP who believes the atheistic philosophy of Ayn Rand is more valid than the teachings of Jesus!
I really don’t know enough about Mormonism to comment on it.
The only caution I would have is painting all Mormons the same. From what I understand, there are almost certain “denominations” of Mormonism just like there are different “denominations” of mainstream Christianity. I think it’s dangerous to say that just because one group of Mormons believe something, that all Mormons believe that. I know that as a Christian I hate that, when people automatically assume they know how I think and what I believe just based upon my faith and linking that to others who share the title of Christian.
But I guess that’s all the more reason for people to ask Romney what he thinks about these things.
I have been wondering the same thing. A year ago, he was dismissed by many conservatives, purely because of his faith. Now, they can’t get enough of him, and we somehow all seem to have forgotten this was a thing. You are right to raise these important questions. I read a comment from Paul Ryan that he can’t distill his faith from his politics. Many liberals find a problem with this, and yet, to people of faith, there are important distinctions to be made. I can’t separate from my beliefs, but I’m not a legislator over a population that is not allChristian. Anyway. Keep asking the questions.
I’m with you Matt on why people haven’t been asking Mitt more about this faith. This election will be a hard one for me as I don’t like either candidate. Pres Obama has not been good for America I think the only reason he was elected is he’s very charismatic and a good speaker. I mean when you look at his record he really didn’t do much before becoming President. Romney is not my favoritefor one thing because he’s a Mormon I know I’ve discussion with people who say I shouldn’t base my decision just on that. 2nd thing is he reminds me of a snake oil salesman. Though I do like his stand on abortion and gay marriage. So am praying to see what direction the Lord would want me to take
At this point, what does it matter about his faith? Unless he comes out of some bizarre closet, we already know what he believes, or what the Mormon church believes. At this point, it now comes down to a candidate who some say is openly hostile to core Christian beliefs, to another who is not really a Christian, but at least has values in line with Christian values.
For many, this election comes down to figuring out the lesser of two evils. From what I can see from my pew, the answer to that is Romney.
hostile to Christianity? Really? In what way has anyone who is running for president been hostile to Christianity?
Seriously?
If you are asking me if I am serious, yes. I have not felt threatened by Obama’s administration nor do I see Romney’s Mormonism to be threatening to Christianity. Just wondering where all the hostility is? I seem to be clueless
I’ve never seen overt or even hinted hostility towards anything Christian by Obama. Don’t confuse particular moral views with the entirety of what it is to be Christian.
The faith of the individual running for office should not make our decision for us. There are Christians who would be awful leaders and there are people of no faith or other faiths who would be amazing leaders. Why are we limiting ourselves? This is not a theocracy.
But I fear people get upset easily when one points out the Mormon beliefs of Romney because deep down they know they have been a hypocrite. They have spent their time criticizing Obama’s practice of his faith or even asserted Obama is a Muslim and used that as one of many reasons they cannot vote for him. But now the religion of their candidate is considered a cult by most Christian denominations and you are calling them out on the issue. We cannot handle it when our hypocrisy is exposed. The emperor truly has no clothes.
You sure went on for a while to come to what is a very simple answer… “Yes, you can.”
For most of the evangelicals that I know, Mitt’s nor Obama’s faith is the deciding factor for what is a political decision. Certainly we are all (evangelicals, non-evangelicals, left, right, black, or white) biased based on many factors and our choices will be made on those multifaceted biases.
I don’t really find these types of posts to be conducive to improving the discussion around how people should go about making their decision. Its a lot easier to keep your white pants white by staying out of the mud versus discussing how to get the mud out once you are in it.
So we shouldn’t ask questions? Because it’s muddy?
I rather think his (MPT) point is well taken. Too many have their heads buried in the sand for fear their hypocrisy will be exposed. The above post hit the nail on the head. “I fear people get upset easily when one points out the Mormon beliefs of Romney because deep down they know they have been a hypocrite. They have spent their time criticizing Obama’s practice of his faith or even asserted Obama is a Muslim and used that as one of many reasons they cannot vote for him. But now the religion of their candidate is considered a cult by most Christian denominations and you are calling them out on the issue. We cannot handle it when our hypocrisy is exposed. The emperor truly has no clothes.”
It’s never too late to open up this dialog. This is an instance in which maybe the devil you know is the better choice. There is nothing I’ve seen in Romney that makes me comfortable, including his awkward smile. Clearly he is just another politician that will say/not say whatever he has to to get elected… and then watch out.
Its muddy to focus on what is most likely a fringe element that gets overemphasized by the media and then creates a polarization.
It is not an us against them (I am so tired of hearing about this faceless ‘them’). We are all Americans who have been given a truly tremendous freedom to elect or decide on important factors within our population. A population whose sum total is greater than these fringe elements that people want to focus negativity towards.
It is easy to attract attention from the derisive element on these different topics (one only has to read the rhetoric that spews across the media to see this). Its much harder to attract attention to real issues. I am not saying that it is not important to know the make-up of the man or woman who will be the face of democracy but I do believe this can be done in a way that is less derisive.
I have no issue with someone choosing to practice their elective choice differently than me.. that is a foundational principle of democracy. When we resort to name calling and grandiose attempts to defame people on the other side of the ‘aisle’, we lose our credibility and the ability to constructively discuss the real issues at hand.
If we want to talk about the candidates faiths or beliefs – awesome. If we want to sit around and poke at ‘the other side” as these statements seem to portray:
‘That said, I know how giddy the GOP, especially those who are evangelicals, become when their candidate talks about their spiritual connection to God.
And I also know that many Christian Republicans like to bash or pick apart the faiths of their Democratic counterparts.
“
Then its no longer about asking questions on the Candidates beliefs and is more of an attack on some fringe element. A fringe element that the greater whole ends up getting lumped with and then the war of words begin.
This post to me appeared to be a veiled attempt at poking at ‘Christian Evangelicals’ instead of constructively raising discussion on important issues.
The election is a political process that will be decided by people with complex and varied belief systems. Those people deciding can no more divorce themselves of their biases than can the candidates from their own belief biases. We can certainly discuss them but we should learn to do so without getting into the mud first.
Obama certainly doesn’t mind spreading his Islam faith around. The difference between Romney and Obama concerning their “faiths”….. Obama is trying to cram Islam down the throats of America. Romney doesn’t have an agenda to make America “Mormon”. Given Romney’s character and Obama’s character (or lack of it), I would take Romney in the White House ANY day compared to Obama.
So ignorant. NEVER ONCE has President Obama shoved Islam down our throats. and you are so wrong about Romney- look up “White Horse Prophesy” he believes, as do his whack job church members, that he is supposed to lead the US to Mormonism. You are a fool and so is everyone who votes like you. A damn fool.
Danny, do you live on the same planet as the rest of us? Your claims are unfounded and really almost too crazy to even respond to. When has President Obama shoved Islam down anybody’s throats? He’s not even a follower of Islam.
You’re so right, Danny. Obama has done nothing but shove his radical islamic beliefs down our throats. Like supporting gay marriage. Protecting a woman’s freedom to choose. Espousing tolerance and pluralism. And enjoying the occasional barbecue sandwich washed down with a frosty beer. If this isn’t an attempt to institute Sharia law in America, I don’t know what is.
BaaaZING!
In the Fox-News-to-English Dictionary, “Cramming Islam down the throats of America” means that President Obama thinks that Muslim-Americans have the right to live here and worship here free from the threat of harassment or intimidation.
Thank you for saying so eloquently what some of us cannot. Amen and Hallelujah.
Amen you brought up so many good points some that ai am sure that so many people never even thought about I think that so many people lose sight of the importance of our leaders faith because if they do not have a relationship with God what good are they going to do us as our leaders
Since you brought it up…why not let someone’s religious beliefs affect the way you vote. I mean, if they are a whack-job, then why vote for them? Are we ignorant enough to believe that someone’s faith doesn’t effect their policy making? You can see very clearly how Obama’s theology has affected his policy making. He appeals to God quite a bit when justifying things (look at his flip-flop on same-sex marriage for instance).
Here’s what I think. Both of their faiths matter. We should discuss it. Republicans were right in bringing up Rev. Wright and all that malarkey and Democrats are wrong in not bringing up Romney’s. Republicans do not have a moral high ground to stand on against Democrats on most issues. Both parties are evil. We should absolutely discuss this. Will Mitt wear his “magic underwear” to get sworn in to office? How does Obama theologically justify allowing a baby who survived an abortion to be killed on the operating table? But no, we are so caught up in the whole, “my party is better than your party” bullcrap to ask real questions.
Because if we ask questions then we have to live with the answers. How many evangelicals do you know that can handle the truth?
Most of the evangelicals that I know can handle the truth. I am sad you haven’t had the same experience.
We must have grown up in different Evangelical bubbles… mine popped. I’m glad that you are surrounded by the truth seekers – but I have found that to be a rare gift. Too many hide, mask, fake it till we make it and rarely ask the deep questions that lead to life.
I would say my bubble has popped as well and I do recognize the imperfect, messiness of those that call themselves Christians. There are those that put on the Christian mask and I would say that I have been in that boat as well. But I am constantly encouraged by the ‘organic’ church that surrounds me in their brute honesty and desire to know Christ and to be identified by what that means.
Nice sweeping generalization. You make writing off most of a crap-ton of people look easy and fun!
I’m not writing anyone off. I think the Evanglical BS is exhausting. I love Jesus. I love His Church. But the way I’ve watched Christians hide and fake it is overwhelming (especially those labeled the big E). Not everyone -but a very large group.
I think it’s great that a member of a supposed cult is running against an incumbent, bi-racial president. THAT is America! A true sign that we are a country that celebrates equality and religious liberty.
I also think that conservatives would vote for anyone who says what they want to hear ( I say that as a former 20+ year conservative) they only drink the RED Kool-aid!
C’mon… that’s true of everybody. This “neo-lib” stuff is funny.
Can you tell me exactly why you would vote for Obama? The way I see it he has done a big fat NOTHING for our country. He blames everything on Bush. That was 4 years ago he can not still be blaming what he has not done in office on Bush anymore. I am so sick and tired of his excuses and him trying to turn our wonderful country into a communistic country.
I thought it was socialist. I am so confused. What’s the difference again?
I wasn’t aware “communistic” was a word.
“Communisic” is only a word if it is uttered by an individual who resides in such an arrangement, as in “part of a commune.” It makes better sense if you’re really into hemp and patchouli. This is what I’m told from an old member of The Farm.
One of my dearest longtime friends converted to LDS as a young adult. She subsequently became engaged to a returned missionary and was married withing six weeks. On her honeymoon, she became pregnant and this became rather her natural state. Now, I have known this woman since the sixth grade. It was frightening to see how drastically and quickly all of this was happening and those who knew her were genuinely concerned. Nonetheless, she seemed to find happiness in her children, if not her marriage.. As it turns out, she’d entered into a marriage of mixed orientation without consent. Such marriages are sanctioned and encouraged by the LDS (as I understand it) as the only way to enter heaven if you’re gay. Because such an alternative exists? Regardless, such arrangements should come with full disclosure, not twenty years of emotional beat-down, half-hidden gay porn, and complete and total denial from her husband. Again, as I understand it, if he admits to anything, he will lose his commission and be excommunicated, thus sent to hell, so I sort of get the denial thing, I guess. But this family has been torn to shreds.Why do I tell the story? Because the man’s faith is more important to him than the welfare of the woman to whom he is eternally sealed and that of their children. Such tunnel vision comes from fear and ignorance, Qualities I don’t care for in a leader.
That said, I don’t think that it is so much the faith of the candidate that is of concern in this circumstance, but rather the enthusiasm of the Fundevangelicals to stand behind a man who believes in three separate gods, a lost white tribe of Israel, and that he, himself, stands to become a god one day. If they’re going for a “Christian Nation” the whole Kolob (sp?) thing could really muck it up.
My mother sent me like 100 Barack “Hussein” Obama is a Muslim emails 4 years ago. Today, religion is not an important factor in the election. Hmmmm. Even though I know that there is nothing I can say that would ever convince my mother than Democrats are not satan worshippers or that Republicans are not Christ’s Ambassadors – but I decided to write a letter anyway explaining why I support the President. I outlined the issues important to me like Studen Loan Reform, Rebuilding Infrastructure, Clean & New Energies Investments, Health Reform, his successful foreign policies, etc. Her response back to me was that none of that stuff mattered, all that matter is abortion. “Obama is for abortion, anyone who kills babies is not a good person.” So basically, an issue that the Supreme Court has already ruled on 40 years ago, is the issue that decides the future of our country on. Regardless of what you think about abortion, its been decided, move the freak on! Anyway, Conservative Christian voters are the worst.
They have no values except the value that wins the election. Christian morals do evolve, they evolve into whatever tricks people into voting for the non-Democrat. No longer is religion an issue here – all my life I was taught Mormonism is a cult. My roommate who’s father is a Mormon bishop has told me numerous stories in agreement to that sentiment. I disagree with the intention of the anti-Mormon sentiment, thats is, since they do not believe what we believe, they are evil – I disagree with that sentiment. But from what I know, their beliefs are pretty coo coo and their meddling with political affairs through the National Organization for Marriage, etc is not what I think religions should be about. But, all the teachings in Sunday School my whole like about how scary Mormons are, have been thrown by the wayside because our Christian President is a Democrat and Democrats are evil.
Conservative Christians are a fraud. Plain and Simple – always have been, always will be.
I got a very serious phone call from my dad on day a few years back. He wanted to warn me about “The Death Panels” because I have a magnificent son with autism and he worried that such a disorder might push him closer to the front of the line.He was absolutely in earnest. Now, this is not an uneducated man. He’s big into Fox and all that similar stuff, he drives me absolutely mad w/that sort of email-sending thing, and he’s of a different generation. He’s also a retired doctor. I was horrified to even begin to consider that he believed what he was saying, and yet there it was.
Death Panels. And he bought it completely.
That’s scarier than than the concept itself.
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