I voted for President Obama; however, I know quite a few people (Christians and non-Christians) who aren’t fans of our president. And most of them are serious and passionate about their dislike, but they are also civil. Eh, mostly civil. 🙂
Just kidding.
But at the gym I go to, I’ve run into three or four older Christian men who sound exactly like the people in this video.
What do you think spawns this sort of thinking/fear?
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These people are scarier than all their theories combined.
I really see little difference between these folks and the ones who went after President Bush all the time during the last four years he was in office. The reason we see outrage in the media against these folks is that the script is flipped and the left doesn’t like what they gave thrown back at them.
It’s politics man…it just keeps cycling worse and worse. We have a country where people don’t trust each other on the interpersonal level so that translates into major distrust of the government. Add in political issues and hot button issues and you get what you saw in that video.
I worry about the country just because I don’t know if we can ever get to rational discussion of issues again without one side or the other breaking out the talking points or borderline slanders they use to demonize and/or dismiss their opposition. It’s to the point when you start losing the debate, you break out the talking points to get your side to shout down the other side.
Sorry my post is such a downer. 🙁
What do you think spawns this sort of thinking/fear?
Uneducated, misinformed people who believe the emails uncle Lou sent to them. I think Obama played a role in JC falling off of that cross you posted yesterday.
I don´t live in the States, but I can tell you that in my country, we always have “detractors” and meetings with people that doesn´t even know why they are there. All these are there by their own reasons, they have their own individual theories but what puts them together is that they found someone to blame, someone to hate and someone to use as recipient to all their anger, fear and frustration against The Govermnent, The System, they named it and the name they decided was “Obama”.
Many things spawn this type of thinking: fear of change, the sincere belief that government is moving away from democracy and toward something more manipulative and corrupt, the choke-hold a two-party system of government has on our country and its citizens, ignorance, the belief that simply engaging “one who is on the other side” in conversation is tantamount to treason, and the idea that every problem must have a winner and a loser.
Some of my friends would have fit right in at this rally, but I refuse to plant inflammatory signs in their yards for all to see. I refuse to label them tools of Satan because they are obstructing the poor, needy, and sick from having access to healthcare. And I sure won’t try to get my hands on their birth certificates and post them all over the Internet trying to prove some point about “who they really are.”
I know who they are. Whether we agree or disagree, most of us are decent folks who simply want to be relatively happy and free. Calling each other names just doesn’t help anybody. Both sides have valid concerns. If we could just sit down over a beer or lemonade and listen to each other, maybe we could find a solution in which everybody gives up a little something but everybody gets a little something, too.
Sigh. My word verification expresses exactly how I feel about the political process: unfun ! ;^)
I think there is a powerful tendency in the church to make rampant use of Jesus (and really any religion in general) to support whatever claim people want to make. The fear these people and the hyper-antiBush folks, I believe it is clinical level Narcissism that lets them believe God supports them though they say “I support God.”
Jason – I voted for Bush. By the end I disagreed, but I think it’s possible for us to have a respectful conversation. We may not agree, I’m pro states rights. But we can have a conversation. Your tone was open and willing to discus without being pushy, and I’m always down to be challenged and listen to a person who is also willing to listen and grow.
We’ve got to stop letting the crazies define the terms of the discussion. Both sides of moderate have to tell their extreme friends to calm down. We can’t let extremist get us worked up.
The problem is that the extremists are the ones who have the voice in all the media outlets because they are far more interesting to listen to than a few reasonable people having a reasonable discussion with each other. Whether that means they’re more powerful or less powerful than they seem, it’s hard to say.
I didn’t vote for Bush and I didn’t like Bush, but it always made me mad when friends said he was as bad as Hitler. And now I hear people doing the same with Obama. We do a real disservice to the reality of evil when we throw those terms around. In the video, when somebody said Obama was the biggest Hitler around today, I wanted to say, “For Pete’s sake. Maybe you need to go somewhere where civilians are getting killed by their government to get a little perspective. Please, take a vacation to Zimbabwe. The Sudan. North Korea. Somalia. After you’ve spent a few weeks in these hellholes, maybe you’ll have a little perspective.”
Baptists. And America.
lol… so yeah, I’m a sorta bitter missionary kid who can’t wait to leave the U.S. The fearful, angry conservatives just…. kill me.
Matt… I voted the way you did. Good post bro. Hope all is well.
These people breed. And that is a scary thought. 😉
All kidding aside, these ideas are radical and influenced by ignorance and fear, but the most frightening aspect is the praying done by the lady at both the opening and close of the video. Until the end of time, people will use their faiths to underpin their idiocy, but it’s a sad reality no matter how many times we see it happen.
Im sad to say that my generation (Im 52)has not been very good about a lot of things. We were the first generation to have more than our parents, and we are pretty much into ourselves no matter our political leanings. I think its a shame that there is no middle ground in all of this. I think both the left and the right act like children. I was horrified by the way President Bush was talked about and am not surprised at all that it is happening to President Obama.
Im praying that your generation will do a better job of listening to each other, especially if you disagree. My sons are 29,30 & 31, I am very proud of them and their friends. I see more compassion, more REAL faith, love and tolerence..I have high hopes. I believe God is doing a great thing with YOUR generation..We do not have to all vote with the same party, but we do have to love and respect one another. We must listen to the concerns that EACH SIDE HAS. If we do not do this, future generations will pay for our intolerance of each other.
I don’t think anyone ever accused Bush of being a terrorist, or satanic. I didn’t like him, I thought he did not have the right skills for the job, and I sure as hell wondered why we had elected him (twice!!), but I still hear a difference in the anti-Obama and anti-Bush rhetoric. What shocked me the most was people writing a “God is still in control” post after the elections, as if Americans were in real danger of something big. I believe in a personal God, but I think he had better things to do..and I wonder if withholding health care is really what he wants. Or if he even has such a specific action plan. But that’s just something I’m thinking about.
Anyway, I didn’t watch the video (sorry for commenting anyway). I wanted to post because I got distracted with the title of the video, especially the teabagging part..I may be the only one here that knows the other meaning of that word, but let’s just say I thought I was back in that sex week series you did a while ago.
Yeah…. “teabagging.” How mature. Incidentally, the guy responsible for this video is the same man responsible for spreading the rumor of Sarah Palin’s supposed divorce and claims that James Dobson endorses S&M. It ends with a plug for his book. Why is anyone taking him seriously?
If you missed Bush being called Satanic or a terrorist, I’m kind of jealous and wish I didn’t have a TV or Internet Connection somedays as well. 😉
This really does remind me of anti-war protests with signs alleging that Bush and the Jews caused 9/11. You can scan a Fark or Kos thread and catch the racism and sexism when Michelle Malkin is mentioned. If you find this unique or hilarious, a few GISes for anti-war protesters will likely even the playing field.
None of this is to excuse the fear and hate seen in the video. It is sad and disgusting, and I hope that the see some of this and are ashamed some day. This is not the faith we’ve been given, and giving into bizarre rumors (be they about Obama, Palin, The Pope, or Gorbachev) is foolish — while spreading them is ignorant and sinful.
What causes this fear? A loss of the sight of Jesus in the center of it all. When Jesus is replaced with Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or FOX (or Keith Olbermann or Jon Stewart or HuffPost), you’re going to see some pretty silly-looking Christians. Don’t laugh and point too much, chances are you’ll be in the same boat some day.
In the end it doesn’t matter who I voted for. I will respect and love the President. When I disagree to the point of demonstrations (be it about the war or social policy), I will not bear false witness — and editing a few crazies to make an entire movement look insane (ditto) is this very thing. I encourage others to do the same.
I’ll tell you a reason why I get afraid.
Our elected representatives vote on Bills that they have not actually read. In fact, they do it all the time. The curious thing is that they have to sign affidavits affirming the fact they have read the Bills.
They don’t even know what’s really in the intricacies if legislation that they try to muscle down our throats.
That’s scary. And that’s just the beginning…
The main difference between the Left Wing Protest of Bush’s War and the Right Wing Protests of Obama’s Healthcare Plan:
The left objects to their tax dollars being used to kill people.
The Right objects to their tax dollars being used to save people.
There’s several lines of thought at play here:
– Protesting is the right of a free people and and people at T.E.A. Parties should not be demonized or stereotyped.
– All Christians aren’t conservatives and all conservatives aren’t Christians. Again, stereotypes. It’s easy and comfortable to do and get accustomed to doing. That said, I am a follower of Christ…Christian…Southern Baptist…and Conservative. I’m also a child of God, husband, father, son, brother.
So many labels but none of them are hateful.
– Overall, these protests represent a legitimate concern: that government is getting too large, getting too involved in lives, and there are some moral disagreements with this President (abortion, homosexual agenda, embracing of all faiths)
All in all, respect for the Office of the President is required. You may not agree with the person in the chair but you must respect the office and should pray for the person in the office and his administration.
This doesn’t mean we should sit back and not voice concerns but we should educate ourselves from a variety of sources…not just MSNBC and not just Rush. Then we can form an educated opinion.
God is in control but we have to be listening to Him to know where we can serve.
It’s pretty clear this video was made with no intent on discussion of issues. It was just another video used to poke fun at people and show how superior we are. It’s the typical, look at how stupid people are that don’t agreee with me fallacy. There are plenty of these smears on the right and left.
I doubt that a post about this video has intent toward building constructive discussion, but I’ll assume I’m wrong and you sincerely want input from people that don’t agree with each other.
I didn’t vote for Obama. I considered it. I wrestled with it and I’m still not 100% happy with my choice. I don’t think honestly living as a follower of Christ looks like either parties platform. I can understand why people vote both ways. I don’t understand blind acceptance. I respect people that wrestle with the realities of picking the best candidate from an imperfect system built by imperfect people.
MPT I like your work, enjoy the blog, and don’t really like the tone of posts like this. I’m not perfect, and you’re more insightful than me, so I’m probably off on this.
Understanding this starts with knowing which government you belong to and who leaders of nations answer to.
Its in the Bible.
And you have to read it which for many Christians that means less “culturally relevant” distractions from your relationship with God.
Has anyone asked what God thinks? Has anyone stopped long enough to try to listen to Him? Or do we just assume He doesn’t share His thoughts with His children? Does He not care about what’s going on? Does He not care about you?
Maybe that’s the issue…a people so out of touch with their God that they can’t even receive what only he can give.
I mean if that was me, the first place I would try get what I need is through my own strength and if that failed, I would turn to my government. Surely God won’t provide. Really?
These people believe that there freedom is going to be taken away because of Obama. They don’t want the government intruding in their lives. These people don’t want thy’re health care to be rationed like in other government run health care programs. I’m not sure whether Obama is like Hitler or not, but he certainly has surrounded himself by radicals and is a far left wing radical himself. As a member of this group, I can say that we are not promoting violence in any fashion, we are not racists, but merely disagreeing with his politics. There were even supporters of Obama during his campaign that came out against Obama because of the direction of that the country is headed in.
BTW- You will always be able to find KOOKS on the fringes of both the left and right wings.
I think Godwin’s Law applies here. Once you mention Hitler or Nazis, the debate is over and you automatically lose. 🙂
I’m not excusing the cherry-picked nutjobs Max Blumenthal interviewed.
I am saying that it’s naive and counterproductive to propagate the image of right-wing nutjobs.
By adding to the rampant criticism of the right, you’re saying, “Half our country is wrong. Half our country is deluded. Half our country needs to shut up.” You may feel righteous or even like you’re doing your part to protect the country by exposing these people, but you’re really just alienating yourself from half the country.
I see nothing wrong with Glenn Beck wanting to find stories that other networks or news organizations won’t cover. He exposed a person Obama chose as one of his advisors who agreed that the Bush Administration orchestrated 9/11. Is Glenn Beck an idiot for pointing that out? He disseminated the recent story about several ACORN offices being willing to abet tax fraud and child prostitution. Was Glenn Beck wrong for covering this story when no other news organization was covering it? Apparently not, since Congress cut many of its ties with ACORN in response.
I’m not saying that Fox News or the radical right’s methods and intentions are flawless. I’m not saying I agree with everything they say. I am saying, however, that I am not impressed by President Obama. I think he has made several alarming decisions, among those being the appointment of Van Jones and the financial support of ACORN. I do not support his health care vision. We need health care overhaul to make things fiscally and morally sound, but I do not believe we need a public option or state-run health care.
It is easy to point to the nutjobs and radical right and say, “The opposition is ludicrous.” In my opinion, the largely unfounded favor for President Obama is about as ludicrous. He was untested when he was elected — elected over a man who’d served as a public official for 50 years. I’m not saying I trust only Republicans because I actually don’t trust any politicians. But President Obama was a junior senator. He had words and a vision, not experience. Now we’re seeing that his vision was rather far-sighted. He’s let too many things fall in the cracks of his young presidency.
I wish him well, but I do not want a liberal America. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but I don’t believe a liberal America will solve problems.
Thanks for reading.
Tocaughtinslowmotion,
Your name pretty much says it all. Your slow on the uptake and seeing reality for what it is. There are some similarities between Obama and Hitler. Only similarities, That is why I said I don’t know whether is like Hitler, or not. He has surrounded himself with many far leftist, anti-capitalist, radicals. Did you denunce when liberals called Bush Hitler, or made comparisons between Bush and Hitler?