A couple nights ago, while pushing Elias on a swing, I said, “I want you to tell me a story.”
Elias smiled. “There was a pig who built his house on the sand. With straw. Then the wolf came. He huffed and he puffed. And the pig’s house washed away.”
Yes, my son’s story was a hybrid of the Three Little Pigs and Jesus’s story of the Foolish Man building his house on the sand. I laughed about that the whole walk back to our condo.
A couple mornings ago, Elias insisted on putting a bandaid over top of an already healed booboo. He said it hurt. So I gave in.
“I want a batman bandaid!”
He chose a “batman” bandaid that actually featured “Joker” rather than the caped crusader.
On the drive to preschool this morning, this conversation ensued:
“Daddy, why is Joker a bad guy?”
“Well, I guess because he keeps making bad choices instead of good choices.”
“Why he keep making bad choices? Did God make him that way?”
Again, I laughed, stammered, and then said something like, “Well, I’m sure God would love if Joker would make better choices, but sometimes making the right choices is difficult for people.”
I stopped right there. There was more I could have said, of course. But I didn’t see the point. As a parent, I’m learning that, when the topic of conversation is layered, a kind that is experiential, and often individually unique, I try to only answer the questions that Elias asks.
And too, I knew why Elias asked if God made Joker that way. He wasn’t being deep or contemplating Arminianism vs. Calvinism or questioning God. He was following his father’s logic. How did I know this? Because often Elias will ask me questions like the one he asked a couple weeks ago.
“Daddy, why do spiders make sticky webs?”
“So they can catch flies and other bugs. Spiders like to eat bugs.”
“Why do spiders like to eat bugs?” he said.
While I was certain there was a scientific explanation as to why spiders find bugs delicious, I didn’t have time to search Wikipedia, so instead I said, “Well, I guess that’s how God made spiders, to love eating bugs.”
“Why did God make them that way?”
“I don’t know. I wish I did.”
Elias’s “Joker” question/comment was simple logic: If Daddy thinks spider like bugs because God made them that way, he might also think that Joker makes bad choices because God made him that way.
I’ve been praying a lot lately about how I should be talking to my son about God. Elias is only four. Now, I believe with all my heart that he’s a brilliant, thoughtful, and intelligent-beyond-all-reason four-year-old kid, but he’s hardly a little Gandhi. But he’s a lively, kind, hope-filled four-year-old boy who dreams big, believes bigger, and engages life with every ounce of his being. So for that reason, I’m very careful about how I talk to Elias about God.
If I think about all of this too much I become anxious. Mostly that’s because I was four when my family left a Methodist church to help start a Baptist church, an independent fundamental kind of Baptist church. I was four when I was told that I was a sinner, that I deserved Hell, that without asking Jesus into my heart, I might get left behind and be forced to suffer the Tribulation. That was a big part of my introduction to God.
Now that Elias is four, some of that baggage consumes my thoughts. My fears are stupid in some ways. Because for one, Jessica and I don’t attend the kind of church that I attended when I was a kid. The methods, beliefs, and teachings at Crosspoint differ greatly from those I encountered at my childhood church. Still, something I fear (or think about) every time I drop him off at Sunday school is that I’ll return to pick him up and he’ll come to me jumping up and down, shouting at the top of his lungs, “I asked Jesus into my heart, Daddy! I asked Jesus into my heart!!”
That might seem strange to some of you, I know. It seems a little strange to me, too. Yes, I want Elias to experience Jesus and possess a faith that encourages him to love God and to love people. I want that so much. However, I’ve tried really hard to ensure that Elias’s introduction to God is different than my own–you know, happier, not fear-based, not abrasive, not based on potential torment. I have faith that God is watching over Elias. But sometimes I struggle to have faith in Christians. And too, while I consider myself to be evangelical in many ways, my beliefs differ in some (many?) ways to a lot of evangelicals. And one of those differences is the evangelical “salvation experience”. I believe that asking Jesus into your heart is a method that we’ve added to Christianity. Some people suggest that this method began in the late 1800s and others say it was added as recently as the 1960s or 70s. Either way, it’s a way of “packaging” Christianity for children. And I’m not a fan.
So far “talking to Elias about God” has consisted of very little talking. We’ve simply invited him along on our faith journey. Jessica and I invite Elias to participate in the various ways we experience faith and God. He prays with us. He goes to church with us. He collects donations with us. Sometimes a conversation happens, like when he asks why we’re doing something and the “why” is related to faith or God, we tell him that. While our discussions of God and Jesus are certainly intentional at times, they aren’t forced. We don’t use God as a way to fearfully encourage “good behavior” nor do we use “God” as a manipulating force to get him to acknowledge “bad behavior”. And we also tell Elias or read to him stories from the Bible. Not every story. Just the ones that we think are age appropriate. For instance, we’ve avoided the “Noah story” so far (I mean, it’s not the cute little story that the board books make it out to be). Of course, Elias thinks he knows the story of Noah. “Noah is the naughty girl who ate the apple,” he told me once.
With time, I’m learning that much of the anxiety I experience is truly related to me. And I know that. And I’m wading/praying through that. I don’t want my fears and baggage to get in the way of Elias engaging (when he’s ready) the stories of God. Still, I’m very careful. Prayerfully intentional. And hopeful.
I pack Elias’s lunch each morning. A few months ago I started putting notes in his lunch box. Some days my notes remind him that I’m thinking about him or praying for him or that I love him. And sometimes I’ll write something like, “Elias, God loves you. God is always with you no matter what. Nobody can change that. Remember that today. Have a great lunch, buddy. I love you. Daddy.”
For now, that’s all the theology he needs.
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Hi Matt. I’m new to your blog as well. I found your wife (whose blog & tweets I love) through Angie Smith, and I obviously found you through your wife :).
This post is awesome, I wish I would have had your words 16 years ago because they would have given me great comfort that I was somewhere close to where I needed to be in discussing God with my now 20-year old daughter. She’s awesome. She loves God and her relationship with Him. I’m printing this post out and tucking it away for her in case she needs it in the future. <3
And the lunch box notes? Keep on with that! My husband packed notes in our daughter's lunch box all the way through high school and she has every single one of them in her box of "treasures". And when she went to Africa this summer on a 6-week service trip? I hid a bunch of lunch box notes in her stuff to give her a little piece of home from 9,000 miles away 🙂
Carry on! You and Jessica are awesome in all that you do.
I love the post, and the thought behind it. Thank you for sharing. I think about God and my children and how to introduce them correctly constantly. It seems I’m not alone, though the majority of the believers around me don’t seem to be as concerned about it as I am. Maybe these things will just work themselves out. I don’t know if I believe in a “working itself out” kind of world.
I wanted to share something else. I had an acquaintance who told me that, as a child, any time she did something wrong she had to apologize to the person she hurt and to Jesus. It set my teeth on edge then, and it still does. This “God as a cosmic wounded party” can’t help but produce guilt which could, eventually, cause a person to separate themselves emotionally from the concept of God. I understand propitiation and atonement as theological concepts and I believe in the importance of confessing my sins and repenting, but those are realities that I had to choose to accept for myself, not out of shame but out of desire. Not out of guilt, but because I’m pursuing God.
This is lovely. Elias and his stories are adorable. ^_^
There’s a little girl at my church–I think she’s seven, but I’m not sure. She’s very small and young for her age; when she was three and four she had cancerous brain tumors removed and she’s been undergoing treatment since.
Anyway. A couple weeks ago after a doctor’s appointment (she recently reached a cancer-free milestone! huzzah!) she came to her mom and grandma and said, “Jesus is in my heart now. He’s come into my heart.”
While a Baptist might be thrilled with this proclamation, we’re Lutheran and that’s cause for concern, kind of. But it’s Oklahoma and the “ask Jesus into your heart thing” is a big part of the culture here. So mom and grandma leapt to conclusions.
“No, honey,” they explained. “Jesus is already in your heart. He’s always in your heart. Who told you to ask Him in?”
S was confused. “No he wasn’t,” she said. “He was in my heart but when I was sick he came out of my heart in the hospital [before her first surgery when she was three] and held me to make me safe. And now he’s gone back in.”
Faith like a little child. My God, the things they know. The things we forget when we grow up and put labels on it and jump to get defensive about all the right and wrong theological details. I don’t know. It’s hard, this training-up-children-in-the-way-they-should-go. But sometimes it’s beautiful, too.
Yeah, one of these days I expect that I’ll have kids and have to wrestle with that sort of thing.
…Which stories are you telling that are “age-appropriate,” if you don’t mind my asking?
As a father of a 3 year old (and another coming this week!), I’ve been struggling/thinking with this topic recently.
Just wanted to say thanks- and that I’m glad there are others out there trying to talk to their children about God in such a way that pastors like myself don’t have to try to undo the damage later on.
Great post.
I’m curious to see some of the other thoughts folks might have about this. I have a 6-year-old who’s getting a little too old for the Beginner’s Bible, but still at the age where most of the church service goes over his head (we’re Episcopalian.)
As a guy who absolutely loathes most children’s Bibles (“The moral of the story is that you should be like Samson!”), I have very much liked Zondervan’s MANGA BIBLE series http://www.amazon.com/Manga-Bible-Vol-Genesis-Exodus/dp/0310712874/ref=pd_sim_b_7 My kid devoured them when he was 8.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! (Me going back to my fundy evangelical days). I totally get where you’re coming from. I have an 8 yo daughter and a soon to be 4 yo son. I’ve gone through those very conservation fundy years where I lived in a whole bunch of fear. Did I really mean when I prayed to be saved, etc.?
After bailing on the american Church for a few years, my wife and I found our home in the Church in Lutheranism. Word and Sacrament. Law and Gospel properly distinguised. Christ died for the sins of the world. His promises are true. We are forgiven. He said it – ‘It is finished.’ But talking theology with my kids is so frustrating for me. As you stated, it causes me great anxiety. I just wanna love my kids and to make sure they know they are loved. By me, my wife, and their heavenly Father.
My daughter went to this summer day camp recently. She came home one day asking about should she ask Jesus into my heart… I don’t want to get into a theogical thing with her now discussing why I think Arminianism and Calvinism is wrong, but Lutherans find something somewhere in the middle kinda crap! Ugh! Parenting is not easy. Not to sound evangelically cliche, but He is faithful and true… I do know that He has not let me go, and I can only trust He will do the same with my kids. Just not sure when and how to communicate those types of things to my kids.
Keep sharing this stories with us!
MPT,
Nicely done, sir. As a father to 2 daughters under the age of 4 right now, this has been something I and my bride have been walking out.
In a nutshell, we both seek to show our Jesus to our daughters through our marriage covenant, how we treat one another as husband and wife, how we relate to our parents (their grandparents), in how we pray with/for one another during meals or whenever one of them injures themselves (to include praying for my bride when she gets cramps), and so on and so on.
My daughters know about Jesus because my bride and I speak of Him openly, since He really is here, now, today, and is not to be confined to Sunday School coloring books or Veggie Tales videos. They pray to Jesus, as children pray of course, and like Him quite a bit. This is encouraging.
Will my daughters be saved by Jesus because of the faith I and my bride have? Hardly. If only it was that simple. Nah, the day will come when my girls come face-to-face with Christ and He explains Himself to them in His own way. But until those days come for my girls, I endeavor to simply show them my Father by being a son.
Normally your posts drip with vitriol, but this one is genuine, MPT, and honestly, it is beautifully written. Thanks.
It’s posts like this that really make me love the internet and realize I’m not alone. “Still, something I fear (or think about) every time I drop him off at Sunday school is that I’ll return to pick him up and he’ll come to me jumping up and down, shouting at the top of his lungs, “I asked Jesus into my heart, Daddy! I asked Jesus into my heart!!”” Yes, exactly. Actually, we have told our kids they aren’t allowed to do that. Thankfully our church doesn’t do that in Sunday School, ‘say this prayer’ but they do talk about Jesus in your heart.
Dealing with this specific issue is so hard. We tried AWANA, but it was so heavily fear and ‘say the prayer’ based that we just couldn’t do it. And this summer, we were able to send our 11 and 9 yo to camp, and I didn’t send them to the baptist camp I grew up going to and loving, b/c the pressure is all week to raise your hand and say the prayer. So we sent them to a secular camp instead.
It’s a really tricky issue and most people don’t understand it. Why wouldn’t you want your kid to ask Jesus into their heart? So it’s not something I talk about a lot. And in trying to not lay my baggage on my kids, I think I’ve veered into not talking about God as naturally as I should be, not talking about him as much as I should be, and now that they are starting to get older, I need to be more intentional about about it. It’s just hard.
I think something to come to terms with here is that no one can control someone else’s journey with God. A God journey has obstacles, it has disillusionment, it has wrong turns and weird ideas and it has amazing moments and epiphanies.
I don’t have kids yet, but when I do, I don’t want to try to protect them from the historical God journey we are all apart of (so to me, all Bible stories are age appropriate) even as much as I’m not going to try to protect them from the secular world around them (so no, I don’t see myself as a homeschooling parent – off to school you go!) I may protect them from some television shows that really just have nothing productive to offer. But my overall feel towards parenting is this – limiting exposure to all the ideas the world and church is just not as valuable as confronting head on, together as a family, everything that is out there in life, history, and society. We’ll take it all head on. So when my kid comes home and says, “I asked Jesus into my heart,” I won’t take that as anything more or less than a step along the way of them sorting through spirituality the same way I have had to.
How very Old Testament of you. (I mean that in a good way.) I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the same thing (becoming a father has a way of doing that to a guy). There are a few passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy that characterize the whole “talking about God” thing almost exactly as you have: as inviting our kids along on our faith journey, rather than trying to force a decision out of them as early as possible. The idea behind these texts was that kids would see their parents performing all these strange rituals – the Passover meal, etc. – and they would ask “why?” Seems to me this approach honors our kids by giving them space to initiate their spiritual journey at their pace. Also seems to me that the apostle Peter’s “be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks” falls under the same category.
Whether it’s our own kids or the surrounding culture, we’re so eager to give people answers to questions they’re not even asking. Maybe if we talked less and listened more they’d show more interest in the conversation.
I just want to encourage you to remember, that Christ told us to have a “child-like faith.” I think that often times we make things too complicated and often times, kids don’t. Their view of the world is much more simplistic and innocent, I think we could learn a thing or two by stopping and attempting to see God with their point of view. It’s amazing the way God can use little ones to show us His heart.
Hey Matt. I’m new to your blog, and find it very refreshing. You’ve captured my sentiments quite succinctly. Thanks!
Since I’m the minister of a small start-up congregation, with little funds to provide for substitute preachers in my absence, I have a special request. Would you grant us the permission to read this post aloud at some point in the future, for use as a sermon while I’m out of town? We would obviously give credit to you as the author and to your blog.
If you’re reluctant to grant this favor…no problem. I understand!
I feel a great hesitation to speak about scripture to my son. He’s 1 on Wednesday, so I’m fortunate I don’t have to yet.
That said, I’m comfortable speaking with him about God and Christ, sometimes wondering things aloud to his uncomprehending ears. It will be interesting to see how I feel when I’ve arrived at a similar place in my children’s development.
Loved this post very much Matthew
I resonate with this very much. Thanks man
I can fully understand how you feel. I was introduced to Christianity the same way you were. It messed me up in the head really bad and it’s been a long hard road recovering from it. If I ever have kids, biological or adopted, I plan on not raising them within the confines of any specific religious belief system. The most I’m going to teach them from the get go is that God loves them, and encourage them to seek out a relationship with God on their own, and to think for themselves, whatever path or form that relationship takes. I myself am still seeking my own relationship with God. I presently attend a wonderful open theological church which has been helping me in my ongoing recovery. I may not be involved in organized religion forever. I’m fairly open minded about what I believe. But my relationship with God feels more real and genuine than it ever did as a fundamentalist. I would want my kids to experience it too, and not have to go through what I did to reach this point.
Your post really spoke to my heart. No, not really, that’s just another thing I hope Sunday School won’t teach my kid to say. 🙂 Excellent stuff, man. Keep it up. My kids are 10, 8, and 1, and I wrestle with this almost daily. I am more-or-less okay with how it is going (much like what you describe), but I have so few people to compare notes with. I will be paying attention to your parenting journey!
I have the same problem with my niece. I want her to know God, but I have a really hard time because my sister is so “over the top” Christian, but not very well-read or educated. She’s intelligent, but chooses not to learn more about the world in which she lives; however, my niece is is very smart and questions everything. Oftentimes those questions come to me. How do I answer truthfully? How do I tell her that her experiences with God have to be real for her and not her mother’s version of it? How do I tell her that a lot of what her mom is teaching her are things she will have to decide for herself when the time comes? I do my best to try to show her how to research her science and history questions… and I just hope she does the same with what she’s told in other areas of her life.
Follower of your lovely wife’s blog hopping on over….THANK YOU for this post! My husband and I are Catholic and I often find myself struggling with some of the same issues you address. I don’t want to make God more complicated for our kids (4,3 and a 10 week old newbie). I am always amazed that when we get the 50 “but WHY” questions, if I get to my default answer of “Because God made/did/wanted it that way”, they stop asking! Thanks again for your perspective…it’s reassurance I needed this morning 🙂
[…] How to talk to my son about God : MATTHEW PAUL TURNER’S BLOG. […]
Thank you for this post!
The past few days I have begun searching for a story Bible for my almost 3 year-old son. He has begun to understand much more complicated stories lately and since we don’t attend church right now (would love to, but …………..) I’ve been wanting to begin talking to him about God and begin to tell him some of God’s story in a more deliberate way. I would find one that seemed like a good option – only to begin reading Amazon reviews and find myself completely baffled by the amount of specific theological-positioning that seemed to bleed into the way that reviewers felt the stories were portrayed (i.e. sin is just bad choices and God loves you no matter what you do OR little kid you are so sinful that you are going to hell and God is angry, etc.).
After reading your post, I’ve decided to take a deep breath, relax and pray for God to guide me – while trying not to let it all overwhelm me. I still want a story Bible for my son and hopefully will find one not too far down the road. But until then, I will talk to him and pray….
About your last sentence…..maybe that’s all the theology ANYONE
About your last sentence, maybe that’s the only theology ANYONE needs
[…] Matthew Paul Turner wonders about how he talks to his son about God. […]
Why does anyone need to teach their child about God?
Speaking from a post-Christianity perspective, I think it’s a highly dangerous road to go down, and without wishing to sound disrespectful, it’s akin to teaching a child about unicorns or Santa Clause. Except those two don’t come with massive amounts of political/sexual baggage that can haunt and damage a person enormously.
Why not just tell your child that YOU love him/her, that YOU’LL always be there for them? Why add this mythical level to it?
I genuinely don’t understand.