RUN PHOENIX, RUN!
Oh dear… I feel like I need to warn all of the good people of Phoenix, Arizona. Unfortunately, your fine city has been chosen as the unlucky recipient of a brand new church spearheaded by Pastor Mark Driscoll and his wife, Grace. I’m warning you because Mark and Grace’s last church spawned an enormous “faith”-based mess in Seattle. Honestly, “mess” doesn’t even begin to tell the godawful story because it involved fear, manipulation, church abuse, misogyny, spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, slander, homophobia, excommunications, lying, misappropriation of funds, publishing scandals, denial, and the list goes on and on…
Now, you’d think that Mark and Grace would have learned a thing or two from that clusterfundamentalist of a church they created in Seattle. But by all accounts, they haven’t learned anything. In fact, not only have they not apologized or even acknowledged wrongdoing toward the thousands of people whose lives they infected with their brand of bible-wielding god abuse, they actually pretend to be victims.
Now, I have no doubt that their lives have been utter hell since their shit hit the fan a few years ago. But that’s not surprising. And it’s nobody’s fault except Mark and Grace’s. When you use “God” to hurt people and then you’re unwilling to admit that you hurt people, life is going to feel like hell for awhile.
But don’t you worry about Mark and Grace. These two are bible-based stormtroopers. They know how to survive the pain they inflicted upon themselves. They’ve perfected their ability to deflect and deny any wrongdoing. They packed up their kids and Bible and dog and they moved far far away from Seattle and the people they abused. They found a brand new city chock full of new fresh and perhaps naive people looking for a place to worship.
The name of their church is The Trinity Church. In the video at the new church website, Mark and Grace still continue to act like panic-stricken victims who have no idea why God would allow them to suffer in the emotional and spiritual wilderness.
So let this be your warning, Phoenix. Do not be fooled into visiting Mark and Grace’s new church. Don’t go. Make sure your friends don’t go. Keep your kids far away from the influence of Mark and Grace.
Why? Because Mark is a charmer.
I’m telling you to stay away because over the years I’ve interviewed quite a few of the charter members of Mars Hill church, people who joined Mark and Grace close to the very beginning and helped them start their church in Seattle, Washington. There was one thing that every single person I talked to said about Mark.
He was charismatic.
One member said, “he was a master at first impressions.”
Another noted that “he had me at hello.”
One person called him “charming.”
Mark and Grace didn’t grow a 15,000-person church in Seattle by telling the people they met, “hey, we abuse people” or “you’re going to HATE us 6 years from now.”
No, this isn’t Mark and Grace’s first Jesus rodeo. They aren’t stupid people. They play coy and act like they’re not organized or prepared for what God’s calling them to do. But that’s all apart of the narrative they’re writing, the story they’re helping God write about them, the one that will no doubt be something like “the Second Coming of Mark and Grace”! But they don’t want to make you think they’re overly prepared for all that God’s got in store for you, Phoenix! Trust me, Mark has been working like a fiend on outlining all that God is going to do in your lives over the next few years.
Nobody needs Mark and Grace’s “God.” Trust me. You don’t need it. And if you give Mark and Grace a second of your time, YOU could likely fall for it. And if you do… I promise—I’ve seen it over and over and over again—You. Will. Get. Burned.
Because Mark and Grace’s “God” hurts people, empowers “yes” men, keeps women “in their place,” and start to turn on you as soon as you start asking questions that “aren’t any of your concern.”
Don’t be fooled Phoenix.
#FreePhoenixFromMark&Grace
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Yes, but how do you really feel? 🙂
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Sad that Grace has to look at him almost the entire time she speaks.
…and hold his hand. Driscoll’s carefully staged “impromptu” announcement.
Ick.
Christians, the only group that shoots their wounded!! Just curious if you’ve ever interviewed Mark directly? Honest question, not trying to jab at you. What about Grace MPT? How do you know they haven’t repented? Wouldn’t God forgive? Just not sure why you are so hard up their arse? I don’t follow them but I have followed this story for a long time, mostly because of you, and I have been on your viewpoint most of the time until now. I believe in repentance, forgiveness and grace.
Jen – isn’t it Mark’s responsibility as a shepherd who has harmed and deceived people in very public ways to make sure that he publicly repents and seeks restoration? Please search for yourself and let us all know if you find a shred of this. The reality is that he has not done any type of actual public accounting or repenting of any of the many abuses and deceptions he has committed. And at the same time he proffers the same “mistakes were made” (look that phrase up on Wikipedia) and “I’m sure I could’ve done better” while never specifically acknowledging any of the horrible, horrible ways he has treated people who he demanded be submissive to his every opinion and belief, lest that be cast out and publicly shamed and falsely accused. Jen, have you read joyfulexiles.com? Good place to start if you are wondering what Mark has done that would need him to publicly rectify.
Interesting because I have read about how he has privately went to many people he has hurt and apologized to them. He has also issued publicly that he is seeking forgiveness for his actions and words. To me MPT here is very misleading saying that Mark Driscoll has done nothing to repent of his actions. How do you know this? Have you privately talked to every single person he has hurt and had them say that he hasn’t apologized or sought forgiveness? From what I have read he has done just that. He has also spent the last year with a few other pastors in the Phoenix area seeking wise counsel on how to better show love and grace. I was a part of Mars Hill and while some of the things he did yes I couldn’t believe I still also found the Mars Hill church to be one of the best times of growth in my life.
Really to me this article is very frustrating. I see this all the time working in the church. All people can remember is the past of a person and never give them any real chance that they could grow into something so much more. I have drunks, abusers, people with major anger issues who have sought forgiveness and repented of their past to then have people continually remind them of who they were and continue to view them in that light. I have seen those people become so discouraged by such behavior. To me this type of writing can do just as much damage as that of Driscoll at Mars Hill.
Please. We’d like to see the links to where you’ve read such things. I’m in contact with numerous MH victims, and all of them say they’ve not been contacted. So I’d love to see some actual proof of what you say.
I know around 10 personally, and around 30+ I am acquainted with. Some of these have known Mark for 15 years, so they’re not fringe people. Some worked with Mark personally on a daily or weekly basis at MH.
No accounts of repentance or even any sort of response whatsoever.
There is not one person from the mega-church he abandoned who has stepped forward to claim Driscoll apologized, asked for forgiveness or offered to make amends. A Google search does not reveal a single one. Not one!
He never offered to pay back the over $200,000 taken from church coffers, tithes and offerings of church members, he paid to a company to deceive the New York Times by cooking the books on the sales of his sex book to secure a spot on the NYT bestseller list. If he has, a Google search does not reveal it.
But, he did publicly apologize to Joel Osteen.
I hope for both of them, Grace and Mark, that they find repentance and a new life. That does not mean in any way that I will allow them to hurt anyone I love. If you don’t live in Phoenix and aren’t a potential victim, it is real easy to comment spouting forgiveness, eh?
I was disappointed to see all the prominent evangelical leaders supporting this launch (as prayer partners). Where’s the discernment and where’s the care for those without power who MD left under the MHC bus?
My pastor is on that list, he did not concent to it and is not a “prayer partner”. He is working on having it removed. Not surprising when you think about it sadly.
Really?! That’s the second person I’ve heard about wanting their name removed from the list. If you know your pastor and he’d want to comment, I might be writing something for a larger media outlet. But no worries if no.
MTP,
Are you referring to Wayne Grudem who disappeared from the list rather quickly? I was surprised to see his name as a prayer partner as reported in Throckmorton’s article on the matter (and then corrected).
From their FAQ page:
Will The Trinity Church have membership?
Once the church is established, a class and process for spiritual church membership will be offered.
Note the word “spiritual” – it means “not legal membership, i.e. you have no standing as a member. This is exactly the basis for abuse we saw at MHC.
Slick word-crafting. He was famous for it at his former mega-church.
Sly. Devious. Deceitful. Shyster. Don’t ever expect true honesty, accountability, or empathy from such a type.
What a jerk!
Be careful how much you imply that Grace was involved with what Mark did to Mars Hill. So far as I am aware, no one has made any accusation about her in all this. You can argue that she was complicit in Marks’ behavior, but I believe she is one of the biggest victims. Mark is extremely controlling and manipulative. I’ve you’ve listened to Mark’s sermons over the years, he’s made mention many times of how “protective” he is of Grace. You know how Mark treated those around him at Mars Hill–now imagine the same person in an intimate relationship with someone who he continually teaches to “submit” to his leadership. No, Mark is the one responsible for all this.
Mark Driscoll is the conservative Christian pastor version of Donald Trump; he’s a narcissist extraordinaire! Narcissists never back down, never apologize, never repent, and never go away. So you are totally right in warning Phoenix. But I believe the reason he chose Phoenix is because it’s a hotbed for conservative Evangelicalism…so he will inevitably dupe many there before this whole cycle starts again. 🙁
Narcissist – great word!
I was a member at Mars Hill Church for 8 years and was very involved for much of that time. Honestly, it saddens me to no end every time I see other Christians ripping on the Driscolls and other people that I call family. They made mistakes – absolutely. What saddens me though, is that I have seen Jesus work in incredibly profound ways consistently through the ministry of the Driscolls and Mars Hill Church. Whatever your impression is from the outside, God is very much alive and working in and through His people here. I have seen dear friends and family saved; I have seen God redeem relationships, soften hearts, and change lives. The Driscolls haven’t been great all the time – no argument there; but they do genuinely have a heart for Jesus and his church. God did an amazing work here in Seattle and more people are living for Him now because of Mars Hill. I’m excited because this now means that more people will have a chance to hear the gospel and meet Jesus.
Nice big slug of the kool-aid there Justin… How about actually interacting with the people Mark abused, bullied and oppressed… How about total failure of repentance? Mark is simply religious flesh that has a gift of gab – like so many other religious con artists using the name of Jesus to profit from.
I am one of those people, Greg. They are my friends and family. It makes me sad that you would write off the power of God working in his people as “kool-aid” because of an outside opinion you have of someone involved. Jesus is at work here in Seattle.
So all the people Mark abused and harmed are what… Colateral damage? We should support him for “the greater good” no matter how many people he harms? God works places cause He’s God and we should be thankful that in spite of Mark lives were changed. Are you really saying the method doesn’t matter as long as a God moves in some people’s lives that whoever was stomped on to get there doesn’t matter?
it’s real easy to speak “forgiveness” when you aren’t a potential future victim, eh? I live in Phoenix. People I love live here, too. I will speak out as loud as I have to in order to keep them far away from him and his “god.”
The Bible clearly lays out the process for dealing with a brother in Christ who is guilty of egregious sin in the book of Matthew. Matthew 18 says, “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Assuredly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” – Matt 18:15-18
This passage makes it clear that Mark Driscoll is to be assumed to be a “heathen”; in other words an unbeliever; until such time that he genuinely repents and seeks and receives restoration with the church. Notice that Jesus has delegated the authority to identify and put people outside the camp of those that are going to heaven to his church. Notice also that this authority is not only binding on earth, but heaven as well.
Mark Driscoll should not be thought of as a Christian, let alone a Christian pastor!
I have watched him and I think he is a sociopath, devoid of any real ability to feel empathy or remorse, he can express it, but I can’t be sure he feels it. If I am correct, he was definitely a good candidate for the Jesuit controlled Leadership Network since it probably would not hurt him to lie and screw that many Protestants in a sort of backwards mystical reformation into soiled Calvinism/ trans-denominational-ism, which will prove to be as bad as every other ism created by them in the end. I can’t help but remember the Basques, whose churches were infiltrated prior to the crusade. These so-called Christians don’t know they can find that mission/works stuff in the Catholic Catechisms. Fascism (an Italian invention) is learned (maybe at boot camp, as in -follow orders or else-), just ask Drucker. I read the books it isn’t church building, it’s church merging the trans denominations in any given area that are already controlled.
Well. He did it. MD is going to hold his Easter service at the Historic Glass and Garden church building in Scottsdale. This building is valued at $21 million dollars and sits strategically close enough to the rich folks in North Scottsdale and the Arizona State Univeristy students in Tempe. Yikes!!!! Help us former Mars Hill folks. Please come and tell everyone going in on Easter about what he did, about what he IS!!
Why does Phoenix (or Scottsdale specifically) need another church anyway? I know Mark wants a paycheck, but aren’t there enough churches there as is?