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20 Problems with Progressive Christianity…

By September 8, 2014Blog, Feature, Featured

I’m a progressive Christian (or I think I am), though I’m not sure I’ve ever uttered that sentence aloud. That’s not because I’m ashamed of the label, but more or less because nobody seems to define “progressive Christian” the same way. (<-That’s problem number 1).

That’s partly because “progressive” is a vague term in today’s culture, nearly as vague as the word “Christian.” It’s no wonder the combo of the two make for a less than definitive idea. (<-Problem number 2?)

However, despite America’s progressive Christianity being undefined (Is it a movement? Is it organized? Is there any unity whatsoever?), a growing number of believers—many of whom are Christians who grew up in conservative churches/denominations—are still choosing to wear the  label. That said, nobody who comes from conservative backgrounds jumps into faith-based progressivism headfirst. While not all progressive churchgoers are former conservative Christians or disenfranchised evangelicals, many indeed are coming from those backgrounds with a myriad of expectations, disillusions, frustrations, hopes, etc. And chances are, for a majority of those onetime fundamentalists or evangelicals, their journeys toward progressive Christianity evolved over many years and often started out of a place of spiritual pain or spiritual doubt or spiritual disenchantment. For them, “Progressive Christian” is a label they approach cautiously and slowly, often wading into their new realities/understandings with far more uncertainty than faith. (<-Problem number 3? That depends.)

Personally, I began embracing the progressive term mostly because other people labeled me as such. Though I’m fairly outside the evangelical box with my theology, I don’t attend a progressive church and many of my best friends are self-identifying conservative or moderate evangelicals. It wasn’t until 2, maybe 3, years ago that I started owning the label to some degree, though I confess, sometimes I do so with much trepidation. Why? For several reasons: Labels frustrate me. Sure, I see their necessity and often use labels and/or stereotypes in my own writing, I also find them to be somewhat unhelpful, suffocating, and limiting in the real world. Moreover, as I mentioned, “progressive” is such an indistinct term with a multitude of variables that owning the label doesn’t “define” me as much as it puts me in a corner with a host of other wonderful and complicated believers/thinkers who (<-Here’s problem number 4->) often have many of their own issues with the label/concept.

However, in my owning of the label and becoming mostly comfortable in this skin, I’ve certainly become privy to many of Progressive Christianity’s shortcomings, especially as they relate to those of us who haven’t always been “progressive” in our spirituality. (I somehow missed problem number 5.)

For example, many of us have a cumbersome relationship with scripture. (<-Problem number 6) Am I allowed to say that? Yes, suggesting that many of us have complicated relationships with scripture might give some people a reason to pounce on us even more than they do (or perhaps discount us altogether), but let’s face it: many of us (not all of us) are a bit clumsy when it comes to scripture.

Now, it’s not that we don’t love scripture, we do love it. We just also hate it sometimes, at least parts of it. Often our odd relationships with the Bible are because we come from experiences where chapter and verse was/is the beginning and the end of God and many of us had that view of God memorized by the time we hit puberty. (<-Problem number 7.) Which isn’t our fault, of course; but for many of us, our history with God’s Word has caused us to become less-than-passionate about using scripture to prove our new, more progressive, points/ideas/theories. Why?
Well, for several reasons perhaps.

1) Because many of us likely know how to prove the opposing view with scripture as well or better than we can prove our current view.

2) Because some of us are uncertain (or fearfully certain) of where to begin or how to prove our current views using scripture.

3) Because a few of us are somewhat unconvinced that “progressive theology” can actually be found in the biblical narrative.

4) Because it’s much easier to just use scripture as a tool against conservative ideas (our old way of thinking) than it is to use it to build up and/or support our new understanding. (<-Problem number 8.)

And trust me (<-Here’s problem number 9->), I get it; going from thinking about the Bible in that literal spoken from the mouth of God and using it as a weapon sense to thinking about the Bible in that non-literal, biblical narrative—part history, part allegory, part inconclusive riddle but always inspired—sense is a difficult journey for most of us. Yes, we believe scripture is “inspired,” but we don’t know exactly what that means, at least, not like we once did. Now, though we often say it’s inspired, how “inspired” impacts our understanding of the Book of Judges and whether or not that story in the Book of Judges about a woman getting cut up into 12 pieces and sent as gifts to the 12 Tribes says anything true about God is another thing altogether.

A part of the bigger problem is that it’s easy for many of us onetime conservatives/now progressives to get caught up in our faith being defined by our past as opposed to it being inspired by what’s in front of us (<-Problem number 10). In other words, many of us know exactly what we believe to be true and untrue about the churches we grew up in, the theologies that we were taught, and the perceptions of God that we once worshiped. And there’s nothing wrong with knowing what we believe to be good and true about our pasts. But sometimes we fall onto the path of getting so lost in fighting the ills of our former spiritual lives that we go for long periods of time when that’s all our faith is, one big fight against what was. (Now, for some of us, I think that’s exactly where we need to be. Because the freedom to be angry is a part of the journey.)

But some of us linger there because we are so uncomfortable engaging God with questions and doubt (<-Problem number 11). In many ways, we don’t know how to engage God without belief squarely intact (<-Problem number 11.5), so we instead become consumed by our own certainty about other people’s certainty. And there’s a time and place for that! But for many, engaging in spiritual wars (usually online) become the most visible, worked-out part of our faiths. Our Christianities become seemingly void of belief or hope or even questions and doubt and instead, most known for a mostly clumsy presentation of angst (<-Problem number 12).

And again, I get it. I really do. Angst, in the right context, is a beautiful thing. But sometimes it seems that’s all our faith is—angst against what was. I’m constantly struggling with this. Because on one hand I do want to use my voice and influence to speak up for those who have been silenced by the sometimes harsh certainty of evangelical, reformed, and fundamentalist doctrines—and I will continue to do that because speaking up for somebody else is a whole other thing—but when the fight is only personal, bursting out from the unresolved issues we have with our former selves, it’s easy to begin mistaking those fights as elements of faith(<-Problem number 13). I’ve learned (and am still learning) that I can’t hand my fights down to my kids and expect them to want to engage God. I can’t inspire belief and hope and mystery with only personal angst toward my past. (Problem number 14->) If our progressive faiths are going to be more than simply labels or responses to our pasts then we must become comfortable engaging the story of God without the lens of our former spiritual ideas. We must accept that it’s far more difficult to pursue God’s story with doubt, questions, and little bit of hope than it is with certainty and doctrine. But we must, if we want to be happy and content and continue on something of a Christian path, take the difficult path, relearn how to believe without certainty, and allow grace to fill in a few of the cracks. Because if our past faith is the defining factor in our current faith, is that really faith? I think that’s a question we must answer ourselves, in our own time.

For many of us, the journey out of angst includes learning the art of critiquing/questioning the Church. Progressive Christians have always been fantastic critics (<-Problem number 16? Sometimes. But not always.). In fact, here in America, it was often because of progressive believers that change in America’s Church became possible, that abuses by churches and ministries were challenged, that hate and intolerance amid the culture was uncovered and remedied. They made mistakes and weren’t always friendly. But sometimes, the sins that the Church commits in God’s name demand to be confronted by unfriendly voices. So all of us should thank God for good critics. We need critics. But the one bigger difference about many progressive voices from our history and many of the progressive voices of today is that the best progressive thinkers of our country’s past learned the art of balancing the breaking of things down and the calling of wrongs out with the creation of ideas, theologies, new ways of thinking, and hopes, inspiration that helped in the pursuit of reframing faith, rebuilding churches, and reconnecting people to the stories of God. (Problem number 17->) Many of us (me included!) are terrible at that balance. Some of us aren’t even looking for the balance.

Again, this isn’t true for every progressive voice. Some people are indeed balancing their fight against the establishment with truths and ideas for reconstruction. But finding the footing or foundation to be both good critics as well as good inspirers is difficult for many of us. (Problem number 18->) Some of us are so busy sharpening our skills as critics that even if our voices do inspire change, we often miss the opportunities that come along to be a part of what happens—the rebuild—after the change (<-Problem number 18.5) Why?

Because we’ll be tempted to find something new that’s broken to critique.

Because at the end of the day, though many of us truly want to help to build something authentic, something new, something believable, something hopeful, something good, many of us still don’t know what that something is… which pays tribute to that earlier point that progressive Christianity is vague and undefined.

Because again, progressives are fantastic critics—needed critics! However, their talent for critiquing the ills of the Church or the sins of the “other side” are only outdone by their seemingly limitless ability to eat up their own kind without a second thought. It’s kind of shocking to behold actually. But progressive Christians jumping on other progressive Christians over the tiniest differences is disheartening. I’ve watched Christians who support equality lash out at other Christians who support equality. I’ve witnessed Christian feminists hating on other Christian feminists. And that’s just the beginning. Many of us are just spectators to these wars, and while we don’t get involved too often, the interactions silence us. Why? Because we’re afraid of our own kind (<-Problem number 19). Yes. It’s true. I think THIS is one of the biggest problems in the progressive Christian culture and why so few new ideas come out of this trend/movement: Because it seems there’s so little grace for mistakes or for being wrong or for being not completely right… And so many progressives become so intoxicated by their own “pet issues” (ideas that most inspire them or interest them) that speaking into that issue is to risk getting attacked socially online by that individual and their friends…. somebody who fights poverty but doesn’t fight poverty the way one person or group thinks it should be fought, they are ridiculed with rage online. Or somebody who speaks out against our country’s racial inequality but either doesn’t do it exactly the way a person/group thinks it should be done or isn’t the kind of person that a person/group thinks they should be, they get vehemently attacked. And I could go on and on. Which is why I think progressive Christianity remains so vague, so undefined. It’s not conservative theologians that limit us. We are far more limited by those with whom we agree with 99 percent of time (<-Problem number 20).

And I believe we can do better. But we need to pick up the mirror. And take a long look.

 

 

 

 

 

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Matthew Paul Turner

Author Matthew Paul Turner

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Join the discussion 44 Comments

  • rrchapman says:

    A “progressive” Christian is one that “progresses.” That is, not being content with the current state of things, but instead presses on to the prize. 
    A progressive Christian knows that a god that can be understood by a human mind is one that can be manipulated by a human mind. Therefore, uncertainty is embraced while progressing to the prize. 

    A progressivve Christian, no matter the personal history, has faced something they thought to be true in living life, but discovered God has more surprises. A person has had to change a personal belief as part of the progress. 

    A progressive Christian discovers that, with each new answer and revelation, there are many more questions to solve. Therefore, the only certain thing is uncertainty. 

    A progressive Christian knows that the Word of God is not limited to a book. The challenge is testing the spirits to see if they are from God. 

    A progressive Christian will discover that, even with the more nuanced and true understanding of God, that they are very capable of acting like Fred Fundamentalist and must change. Actually, the progressive can be shamed by this.

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    • That resonates with me, Bob. Thank you. I prefer to give God sacred space to work his divine nature in my life than to box it up with a label and some human constructed definitive rule book.

      • I am 2 years late but what a great post! I’ve been going to church since I was little and now at 28 years old after reading the bible on my own, and having my own life experiences I now fall closer to the progressive end of the Christian spectrum and it has thrown me for a loop. I love that you say we have to learn to seek God even if all we have is questions, uncertainty and a little bit of hope. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

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  • KelseyMLoo says:

    Yeah I didn’t realize I was a Progressive Christian until I read this and found myself convicted. 
    When you’re comfortable being the only person in your circle calling out and speaking the truth (admittedly, not always in love),  it’s easy to forget that 100% agreement isn’t necessary for community. And that tearing down is only productive as a forerunner to building up.  
    Thanks for sharing this. I was touched.

  • ChadMarkley says:

    Geez Matt. Such an excellent job at describing and fleshing out exactly where I am right now. Thanks for taking the time to think through and write out such a great post.

  • ChadMarkley says:

    Geez Matt. Such an excellent job at describing and fleshing out exactly where I am right now. Thanks for taking the time to think through and write out such a great post.

  • Robbie D123 says:

    There is a whole community of folks who have struggled with these same existential problems and you can read their personal stories and epiphanies here http://recoveringfundamentalists.com.  I think you summed it up nicely when you said “…. if we want to be happy and content and continue on something of a Christian path, take the difficult path, relearn how to believe without certainty….” Happiness and contentment don’t only come through walking a Christian path, but when that’s the only path you’ve ever been on, it can certainly seem like that is a truism. This is what’s breeding a whole new generation of folks who categorize themselves as “nones” (no religion) in the US.

  • KathrynKeller says:

    Anyone known of a church in Dallas where one where a person like  ^this^ might feel comfortable? Church shopping is hard work! Thanks for the insightful post!

  • I think that many of us have an unhealthy, co-dependent relationship with “conservative” Christianity. (The label’s a complete misnomer, but that’s a whole other issue.) We are almost entirely reactionary, which I think is unavoidable for American Christians as a starting point. But ultimately, we need to resist the temptation to allow that corner of Christianity set the agenda, pick which topics are going to be discussed and set the lines of all debates according to their concerns. I do think the time has come to start speaking our own truths without regard for what the old crew would say. To not reference them or think about them, but just start on the foundation given us – Jesus Christ – and build. Share. Think. Create new ways of seeing things. Give people a positive vision that stands on it’s own. Practice the spiritual discipline of being wrong and don’t look back, having put your hand to the plow. 

    We’ve been trying to wrestle from the right what they do not own and cannot give us. “Seek first the Kingdom of God and all this will be given unto you.” I think we need more people who are just seeking God and fewer people trying to explain reality to those who have their own paths to walk. We need more faith. It’s going to be fine. The gates of hell have already been defeated for us.

  • I think that many of us have an unhealthy, co-dependent relationship with “conservative” Christianity. (The label’s a complete misnomer, but that’s a whole other issue.) We are almost entirely reactionary, which I think is unavoidable for American Christians as a starting point. But ultimately, we need to resist the temptation to allow that corner of Christianity set the agenda, pick which topics are going to be discussed and set the lines of all debates according to their concerns. I do think the time has come to start speaking our own truths without regard for what the old crew would say. To not reference them or think about them, but just start on the foundation given us – Jesus Christ – and build. Share. Think. Create new ways of seeing things. Give people a positive vision that stands on it’s own. Practice the spiritual discipline of being wrong and don’t look back, having put your hand to the plow. 

    We’ve been trying to wrestle from the right what they do not own and cannot give us. “Seek first the Kingdom of God and all this will be given unto you.” I think we need more people who are just seeking God and fewer people trying to explain reality to those who have their own paths to walk. We need more faith. It’s going to be fine. The gates of hell have already been defeated for us.

  • jeffvcook says:

    Perhaps its worth compiling a list of affirmations. If you resonate with/or self-identify with this way of seeing reality.

  • jeffvcook says:

    Perhaps its worth compiling a list of affirmations. If you resonate with/or self-identify with “Progressive Christianity”, what are central railing points. A few that stand out to me: 

    … We believe in a New Creation , not in an escapist soteriology. We do not embrace the Gospel as “the plan of salvation” (a gospel just about me). The Gospel is the royal announcement that Jesus Christ is Lord (a gospel about all of creation).

    … We have moved from speaking of ethics as simply rules to follow, to seeing the good life as a process of becoming a person fully alive in Christ and in community through the power of the Spirit.
    … We have moved from thinking history doesn’t matter or that modernity is history’s zenith to seeing the past as full of wisdom to draw on.

    …We are aware that the Bible must be interpreted by fallible readers.

    … We elevate Jesus’ life, teachings, resurrection and ascension, and reject an exclusive focus on just the virginal birth and cross. All 6 are necessary to see God and his unveiling story.

    These may not be shared, but it does seem to me a set of centering affirmations that give definition to “progressive Christianity” could be offered (in response to Problem 1-4).

    Peace, Jeff

    • revhms says:

      Just remove the “not” bits, so it becomes affirmations alone. That would point the affirmations you suggest more firmly towards something than away.

  • M J says:

    You are describing what can be labeled as mainstream churches. You are describing me, and the church I go to in downtown Seattle — Immanuel Lutheran. Faithful and accepting of questions. May you discover such a fellowship. You are not alone in your thinking. You are a Christian.

  • M J says:

    You are describing what can be labeled as mainstream churches. You are describing me, and the church I go to in downtown Seattle — Immanuel Lutheran. Faithful and accepting of questions. May you discover such a fellowship. You are not alone in your thinking. You are a Christian.

  • creatingmom2014 says:

    Yes to all of this. I struggle with progressing (there’s that word) my faith instead of defining it by what it’s not anymore. Sometimes I think I’m not ready to go there, because you’re right, in involves moving forward, asking hard questions, living in faith and doubt. Lots to think about now.

  • creatingmom2014 says:

    Yes to all of this. I struggle with progressing (there’s that word) my faith instead of defining it by what it’s not anymore. Sometimes I think I’m not ready to go there, because you’re right, in involves moving forward, asking hard questions, living in faith and doubt. Lots to think about now.

  • Yes to all of this. I struggle with progressing (there’s that word) my faith instead of defining it by what it’s not anymore. Sometimes I think I’m not ready to go there, because you’re right, in involves moving forward, asking hard questions, living in faith and doubt. Lots to think about now.

  • RogerWolsey says:

    Interesting piece. Yep, it’s messy. Granted, by definition, progressive Christianity seeks to avoid being defined. That said, there are certain things that can be said about it. It is the post-modern influenced evolution of liberal Christianity and it is an heir of the Social Gospel movement. It’s similar to emerging Christianity, which is the post-modern influenced evolution of evangelical Christianity. They are of different lineages and starting points however. Here are some helpful links that I encourage people to explore:
    1. Wiki’s article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity
    2. Progressive Christianity isn’t progressive Politics: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/progressive-christianity-isnt-progressive-politics-2/
    3. Progressive Christianity is part of the current Reformation of the Church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-roger-wolsey/progressive-christianity_b_892727.html
    4. 16 Ways Progressive Christians interpret the Bible: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/16-ways-progressive-christians-interpret-the-bible/
    5. 7 Ways to find a progressive Christian church: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/7-ways-to-find-a-progressive-church/

  • RogerWolsey says:

    Interesting piece. Yep, it’s messy. Granted, by definition, progressive Christianity seeks to avoid being defined. That said, there are certain things that can be said about it. It is the post-modern influenced evolution of liberal Christianity and it is an heir of the Social Gospel movement. It’s similar to emerging Christianity, which is the post-modern influenced evolution of evangelical Christianity. They are of different lineages and starting points however. Here are some helpful links that I encourage people to explore:
    1. Wiki’s article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity
    2. Progressive Christianity isn’t progressive Politics: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/progressive-christianity-isnt-progressive-politics-2/
    3. Progressive Christianity is part of the current Reformation of the Church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-roger-wolsey/progressive-christianity_b_892727.html
    4. 16 Ways Progressive Christians interpret the Bible: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/16-ways-progressive-christians-interpret-the-bible/
    5. 7 Ways to find a progressive Christian church: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/7-ways-to-find-a-progressive-church/

  • lizdyer55 says:

    Matthew, I’ve followed you and read your stuff for years and feel like I have been on a journey of faith with you. So, it’s exciting to witness your growth/change/enlightenment … I often feel like we have been on a similar timeline. 
    For years I gave up the title “Christian” because there was just too much baggage attached to the label. Instead of “Christian” I would call myself a “follower of Jesus” or a “Jesus follower” but recently I have adopted the label “progressive Christian”.  I think it is a good label for me … at least for now – and you describe my journey well … I am a disenfranchised evangelical and I have approached the label cautiously but because I have a lot more questions than answers it seems to be a “tent” where I am welcome and validated.
    I do have a complicated relationship with scripture and that has been going on for 6 or 7 years now. I had to actually stop reading scripture for a period of time in order to move forward with Jesus and it has just been in the last year that I feel like I am able to approach scripture with a kind of fresh curiosity which is what I have been longing to do for years – but it’s been a long journey for me to get here. 
    I also finally feel like some of the anger I have about my past faith experiences and the brand of Christianity that I felt betrayed by is finally dissipating. 
    Like I said , it’s been a long process of many days and months and years but I finally feel like I am at a place where my past faith experiences and my anger about my past faith experiences are not defining my present faith experience. I guess I finally feel like I am moving out of one stage of faith and into the next stage.
    I like your point here and I’ve witnessed some of what you are talking about but it might be more severe for someone like you who has a public persona. Most progressive Christians I am in community with are not the attacking, my way or the highway, kind of people. However, I think your call for self examination is worthy and if there is any subject that could cause me to fall into being “intoxicated” by my own passion about something it would probably be the subject of LGBTQ+ people and their relationship with “the church” as I have a son who is gay and his coming out was the beginning of my crisis of faith that caused me to re-examine and move forward.
    At any rate, I’m taking your words to heart as I move forward.

  • lizdyer55 says:

    Matthew, I’ve followed you and read your stuff for years and feel like I have been on a journey of faith with you. So, it’s exciting to witness your growth/change/enlightenment … I often feel like we have been on a similar timeline. 
    For years I gave up the title “Christian” because there was just too much baggage attached to the label. Instead of “Christian” I would call myself a “follower of Jesus” or a “Jesus follower” but recently I have adopted the label “progressive Christian”.  I think it is a good label for me … at least for now – and you describe my journey well … I am a disenfranchised evangelical and I have approached the label cautiously but because I have a lot more questions than answers it seems to be a “tent” where I am welcome and validated.
    I do have a complicated relationship with scripture and that has been going on for 6 or 7 years now. I had to actually stop reading scripture for a period of time in order to move forward with Jesus and it has just been in the last year that I feel like I am able to approach scripture with a kind of fresh curiosity which is what I have been longing to do for years – but it’s been a long journey for me to get here. 
    I also finally feel like some of the anger I have about my past faith experiences and the brand of Christianity that I felt betrayed by is finally dissipating. 
    Like I said , it’s been a long process of many days and months and years but I finally feel like I am at a place where my past faith experiences and my anger about my past faith experiences are not defining my present faith experience. I guess I finally feel like I am moving out of one stage of faith and into the next stage.
    I like your point here and I’ve witnessed some of what you are talking about but it might be more severe for someone like you who has a public persona. Most progressive Christians I am in community with are not the attacking, my way or the highway, kind of people. However, I think your call for self examination is worthy and if there is any subject that could cause me to fall into being “intoxicated” by my own passion about something it would probably be the subject of LGBTQ+ people and their relationship with “the church” as I have a son who is gay and his coming out was the beginning of my crisis of faith that caused me to re-examine and move forward.
    At any rate, I’m taking your words to heart as I move forward.

  • cindybrandt says:

    I think Progressive Christians struggle to find momentum in this “movement” as compared to fundamentalists or conservatives because a community with shared values that continually reinforce similar thinking becomes a powerful, cohesive, social glue which then propels a movement forward with gusto. I think many of us become progressive precisely because that kind of unifying stance has repelled us. It can so easily lend to abuse. So we remain guarded against unified thinking, continually critiquing, as you say. 

    I don’t know what the answer is. I guess that is also what makes me a progressive Christian. 🙂 Thanks for your thoughtful piece.

  • cindybrandt says:

    I think Progressive Christians struggle to find momentum in this “movement” as compared to fundamentalists or conservatives because a community with shared values that continually reinforce similar thinking becomes a powerful, cohesive, social glue which then propels a movement forward with gusto. I think many of us become progressive precisely because that kind of unifying stance has repelled us. It can so easily lend to abuse. So we remain guarded against unified thinking, continually critiquing, as you say. 

    I don’t know what the answer is. I guess that is also what makes me a progressive Christian. 🙂 Thanks for your thoughtful piece.

  • weaselwriter says:

    from what i read, i think you’re trying to hard to stay with what you are used to and you’re trying for fit it into your present way of thinking. i had the luxury of not growing up on a religious family…until my parents became buddists. it was at that point i made a choice to remain christian, but not without a little divine help. i had a revelation that changed my life. i did not go out and embrace the first church i saw. rather, i started on a journey to find the truth. because i didn’t have a back drop of learned ideals drilled into my head, i was, you could say, an empty canvass. that is probably to my benefit. i never had anyone shoving unbelievable cr*p down my throat. and since i am and always have been a student of science, i sought the marriage of God of reality, which i have found, although there is never an end to learning. i think that if ‘progressives’, which i don’t really see myself as one, want to break free of all the problems you mentioned, you first have to let go of everything you ever learned, everything someone else told you was true.  the bible can be interpreted a thousand different ways. it depends upon what you want to get out of it. but, if you understand, to begin with the history of the times when the bible was being written, if you come to understand more about how the natural world works, it becomes easier to see that God is very easy to believe in and that the “divine” inspiration of the bible…might not be so divine in all places. there is nothing wrong with saying that the bible is part, history, part metaphor, part allegory, part philosophy and a lot of myth. we shouldn’t be so concerned whether some woman got chopped up and did that really happen and did God ordain it, as we should be paying attention to what Jesus said. “There are two great laws, saith the Lord. the first great law is to love thy God with of thy heart and soul. the second great law is the love thy neighbor as thyself. these two commandments go before all the laws and the prophets. work your way from there. these were words said by a real man, not some enigma. and they weren’t repeated some person who claimed to be divinely inspired. he WAS divine…because we’re all divine. we need to first change your entire perception of God and THAT’S the biggest problem in organized religion today. we have had it so ingrained in our psyche that we are in the image and likeness of God, so ergo he HAS to be some kind of human, that we can’t break away from that concept. but, if God is the creator of the universe. if He is the essence of existence itself, if all the energy in the universe is consciousness, thought without physicality, life without form. and if we are all a part of that energy, which we are, because we call came from the universe. we are made up of the same stuff as the stars ultimately, then aren’t we all just part of God? and couldn’t that image and likeness be a spiritual image and likeness? because, without our corporeal, three-dimensional bodies, we are just energy. and God only appears as forms of energy in the bible. even when HE goes to Abraham to tell him about Sarah, he disappears into thin air. that’s not human. we have to move on from thinking of God as one of us and start thinking of us as part of God. the powers that be out there don’t want that. because once you free yourself from that way of thinking, you realize you don’t need them and that you can truly have a one on one relaitonship with God. i’m not a progressive. i’ve evolved.

  • weaselwriter says:

    from what i read, i think you’re trying to hard to stay with what you are used to and you’re trying for fit it into your present way of thinking. i had the luxury of not growing up on a religious family…until my parents became buddists. it was at that point i made a choice to remain christian, but not without a little divine help. i had a revelation that changed my life. i did not go out and embrace the first church i saw. rather, i started on a journey to find the truth. because i didn’t have a back drop of learned ideals drilled into my head, i was, you could say, an empty canvass. that is probably to my benefit. i never had anyone shoving unbelievable cr*p down my throat. and since i am and always have been a student of science, i sought the marriage of God of reality, which i have found, although there is never an end to learning. i think that if ‘progressives’, which i don’t really see myself as one, want to break free of all the problems you mentioned, you first have to let go of everything you ever learned, everything someone else told you was true.  the bible can be interpreted a thousand different ways. it depends upon what you want to get out of it. but, if you understand, to begin with the history of the times when the bible was being written, if you come to understand more about how the natural world works, it becomes easier to see that God is very easy to believe in and that the “divine” inspiration of the bible…might not be so divine in all places. there is nothing wrong with saying that the bible is part, history, part metaphor, part allegory, part philosophy and a lot of myth. we shouldn’t be so concerned whether some woman got chopped up and did that really happen and did God ordain it, as we should be paying attention to what Jesus said. “There are two great laws, saith the Lord. the first great law is to love thy God with of thy heart and soul. the second great law is the love thy neighbor as thyself. these two commandments go before all the laws and the prophets. work your way from there. these were words said by a real man, not some enigma. and they weren’t repeated some person who claimed to be divinely inspired. he WAS divine…because we’re all divine. we need to first change your entire perception of God and THAT’S the biggest problem in organized religion today. we have had it so ingrained in our psyche that we are in the image and likeness of God, so ergo he HAS to be some kind of human, that we can’t break away from that concept. but, if God is the creator of the universe. if He is the essence of existence itself, if all the energy in the universe is consciousness, thought without physicality, life without form. and if we are all a part of that energy, which we are, because we call came from the universe. we are made up of the same stuff as the stars ultimately, then aren’t we all just part of God? and couldn’t that image and likeness be a spiritual image and likeness? because, without our corporeal, three-dimensional bodies, we are just energy. and God only appears as forms of energy in the bible. even when HE goes to Abraham to tell him about Sarah, he disappears into thin air. that’s not human. we have to move on from thinking of God as one of us and start thinking of us as part of God. the powers that be out there don’t want that. because once you free yourself from that way of thinking, you realize you don’t need them and that you can truly have a one on one relaitonship with God. i’m not a progressive. i’ve evolved.

  • MarieFriesen says:

    Not long ago I witnessed people on one ‘progressive’ Facebook page pounce on fellow progressives in a way that brought frightening scenes to mind from “Lord of the Flies.” It’s shocking and grotesque how some were willing to carve one another up in the name of freedom from religious abuse. I find this tragically ironic.
    Your article ought to be read by everyone who considers themselves a progressive, or even a moderate Christian. There’s lots of soul-searching to be done.

  • MarieFriesen says:

    Not long ago I witnessed people on one ‘progressive’ Facebook page pounce on fellow progressives in a way that brought frightening scenes to mind from “Lord of the Flies.” It’s shocking and grotesque how some were willing to carve one another up in the name of freedom from religious abuse. I find this tragically ironic.
    Your article ought to be read by everyone who considers themselves a progressive, or even a moderate Christian. There’s lots of soul-searching to be done.

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  • Pam M Bos says:

    I agree; I know a lot of middle aged and older people like me who left the evangelical church are in mainstream/mainline churches, if they still go to church. (That’s also something that happens a lot; people never reengage fully with church.). I thought the emergent movement might add some more options, but it doesn’t seem to have produced a lot of “fellowships” that endure over time, at least in my area.

  • Pam M Bos says:

    I agree; I know a lot of middle aged and older people like me who left the evangelical church are in mainstream/mainline churches, if they still go to church. (That’s also something that happens a lot; people never reengage fully with church.). I thought the emergent movement might add some more options, but it doesn’t seem to have produced a lot of “fellowships” that endure over time, at least in my area.

  • PatrickOlp says:

    Nailed it, especially the parts about being angry about our church past and directing anger at something I can’t change, coupled with smugness related to being the ultimate critic. I’m going to have read this again a few times, but dammit Matt this one nailed me right in the feels. Great post, great thoughts, thanks for sharing.

  • Danie says:

    I wish I had written this. I feel like you were able to take the thoughts and feelings I’ve been struggling with for the longest and put them into writing. Thank you!

  • I enjoyed reading this greatly. One point though: the body of the woman known as the Levite’s concubine wasn’t dismembered to provide “gifts” for the other tribes, but to provide visceral rallying symbols. The whole chapter is a reversal of Lot and Sodom. The Levite was going to spend the night among the Canaanite Jebusites, but unwittingly chose the cruel “hospitality” of Benjamites, a reversal of the angels sent with full knowledge to the one Hebrew(ish) ancestor Lot in a reputedly wicked Canaanite city. Just as in Ezekiel’s rants, this passage shows a segment of Hebrews being worse than the Canaanites. It’s a challenging passage but ought not to be dismissed with a misremembered reading.

    Still, I found your reflections apt. If I were blunt, being of a similar bent, it’s perhaps that those of us who question and struggle with our faith can’t square our post-adolescent understanding of the world with the faith system whose traditions bring us nostalgia and comfort, if not joy. The evidence doesn’t seem to be there, and the mysticism is hollow. This is essentially where many Greco-Romans found themselves after Socrates. Homer and Hesiod seemed to believe in Olympus; Virgil believed for a political reason and Ovid for the sake of beauty alone.

    Christianity is bigger than evangelicalism and mainline denominations such as Methodists and Episcopalians have already embraced much of what post-evangelicals seem to want: lively, compassionate church without rigid theology. But if I recall, those are shrinking in numbers in the United States. And pastors from those denominations have lamented to me that their congregations don’t read Scripture.

    We “progressives” become critics of other systems rather than architects of our own because we know a nebulous theism of “inspiration,” whose verifiable presence in a passage is limited by our personal wonts, is untenable. Our way is agnosticism if we follow the path. Better to apply logic to others rather than ourselves, because we suspect the world has beauty, but not meaning. And that move to a world without divinity is terrifying.

    If Christ isn’t raised, our faith is in vain. The extended narrative that accompanies Christ is filled with discomforting elements, and it’s almost willful obstinacy to jettison all but some vague Jesus. So I suspect many of us sit in the pews knowing where the conditional statement takes us: it’s vain.

    Of course, I don’t identify with the ever-shifting and equally-nebulous political outlook of progressivism, so the overlap of those terms turns me off much as conservatism as a term does.

    Judaism in the West has already traced this arc, but with a more unifying core of ethnicity and shared history. Christianity isn’t doomed, more literal versions are doing just fine in most parts of the world. But what will we “progressives” teach our kids here, in our communities? A Christendom of vague theology that mimics Plato’s noble lie in the hopes of giving them some semblance of our Irene stability, or new streams of thought that sunder us from our past?

    I apologize for typos; this was done via phone.

  • Matt T. says:

    It is great to have a personal Christianity – one where you become your own god – worship without the restraints of truth – live without the shackles of the Word of God. After all it is a man made book – pick and choose – do what you want. Live in a way that is right in your own eyes. I mean, after all, “did God really say?” Oh, oh, wait a second…this all sounds vaguely familiar.

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  • Shell Blan says:

    I am not a fan of labels… It seems like they separate and push us apart. But I do agree with your statement about many of us liking to use scripture to prove opposing views. People have progressed from the beginning of time. Its natural. Some people just progress slower than others… hence the separate labels 😉

    Great post, thanks!

    Shell Blan
    http://www.shellblan.com