Dear Great Britain, Mark Driscoll Bloody Hates You

Seattle’s self-proclaimed BEST pastor, Mark Driscoll, decided to do an interview with Great Britain’s Christianity magazine. Why? Well… duh! So he could piss all over his brothers and sisters in Christ on the other side of the pond.


What did Mark “I-have-a-rock-solid-marriage-and-I-listen-to-Jay-Z” Driscoll tell his British fans?

“Let’s just say this: right now, name for me the one young, good Bible teacher that is known across Great Britain. You don’t have one – that’s the problem. There are a bunch of cowards who aren’t telling the truth.”

Mark’s kind of a cheeky fellow, isn’t he? I bet behind closed doors, he drinks English Breakfast, watches Downton Abbey, and LOVES Robbie Williams.

Now, regarding what ails Christian culture, Mark told Christianity

“I think the problem in the church is there has been a one-size-fits-all approach. We speak to nice, godly, growing women in the same way we talk to immature, rebellious, date-raping men.”

Cheeky indeed.

MORE TO COME (the rest of the interview) JANUARY 15.


    • says

      But then New Frontiers believes women should not be in leadership and there are some strong sympathies to the new Reformed stuff among many of them, so there is a close fit there.

    • Leanne says

      No this isn’t out of context. Pastor Driscoll’s view is that the church and pastors must change how they present the message to make Christ cool to attract young men. And anyone who is not doing that is part of the problem and weak and cowardly.The problem is no where in the New Testament or the Early Church did the leaders make Jesus “cool” to that culture. They lived out their faith in such radical love, sacrifice, peace making, treating slaves like family, being willing to die rather than return evil and violence with evil and violence…..and in living the Kingdom out, people saw that Jesus was truly resurrected—not cool, not down with the regular guys—but alive and working in the world around them. Because no human would love like Christ, die like Christ, and consider this a joy and privilege if Christ was not truly with them. They amazed people with not a radical coolness but a radical love.
      Pastor Driscoll is complaining that pastors are weak and shaping a message to appease the masses. he is doing the same thing just to a different demographic. He is giving them what they want to hear in the manner which makes them feel like they are sitting at the cool table.

      • Leanne says

        I found that odd when I have looked at his blog. It seems to have been created so Driscoll can have a place to explain deeper his flippant sayings which anger people without having to interact with any critics.He is trying to reach out to a certain demographic–which is the trend in Christianity as of late. But he has not learned that you can speak to a specific demographic without tearing apart other theologies, churches, Christians, and people who do not fall into that demographic. He has yet to see that the reason his words bring such controversy is because he does tear down other Christians and certain types of people. And in keeping his readers from being able to comment on his blog really emphasizes his image and inability to dialog with those who may disagree with him.

  1. Ben says

    Why does a good, young, passionate, gifted bible teacher have to be known across the country? I know a good few in my theological school. I’ve worked with some incredibly gifted church leaders… Stage size isn’t everything Mark. I used to really look up to this guy…

  2. Leanne says

    ugh, because Bishop N.T. Wright doesn’t count in mark’s book because he is not of the same theological school as Mark.

  3. says

    How far will this guy go before somebody punches him in the face? Honestly, I kind of wish it’d happen soon…
    But seriously, he’s got just as much of an image problem as those he verbally abuses. He just doesn’t own up to it.

  4. says

    “In particular, the quote about cowardice may not fit all British men, but for men who misuse their authority to advance their agenda, it seems applicable.” – Mark Driscoll
    Thanks Mark. We can always count on you to be hypocrisy personified. But please, step back and recognize it for once…

    • Skjaere says

      Driscoll – (verb)1. To overcompensate in hopes of hiding one’s true sexual orientation.
      2. To bully into submission.

  5. Helen says

    I know the guys behind the interview, it really wasn’t taken out of context. The people over here in the UK are just really hurt by what he has said, firstly in the interview and secondly in his blog.
    NOT. COOL. Mr Driscoll.

    Though i am aware he won’t liten to me because I am a woman. But there are plenty of “well known” christians, most of the soul survivor team for one thing, we just try not to turn them into celebrities.

    • Leanne says

      As an American Christian, please accept my apologies. I wish pastor Driscoll would be “man” enough to apologize himself. But I am sorry for the hurt caused.The theologians who have most influenced me have actually all been British—Chesterson, Wesley, Wright, Lewis…..You have wonderful theologians and preachers (I got to listen to Bishop Wright in person and it was incredible!)

      • says

        We Brits don’t hold the rest of our American friends responsible for Mark Driscoll. An American friend has put a similar comment on my blog, and I’d just like to say that just as you appreciate certain British theologians and preachers, so I deeply appreciate so much good American work – starting with Eugene Peterson and working on to many more.

  6. Phronsie says

    I think he does have a point as far as the “one-size-fits-all approach” is concerned, kind of. That’s why there’s children’s church, youth group, prison ministry, etc. In order to reach people you have to meet them where they are. There’s nothing wrong with one sermon on Sunday that you preach to everyone but churches should have outreach groups to reach a variety of people.

    • says

      Sure there’s an important point about one-size-fits-all, but I don’t think the UK has any more of a problem than the US on this. D seems to be working with his own antiquated stereotypes.
      Also, isn’t contextualisation more difficult when there’s one preacher speaking to several thousand people in loads of different building every week? Megachurch seems like another way of doing one-size-fits-all.

      • Phronsie says

        Totally understand what you’re saying. I don’t know about the stereotypes though, but that’s ok. He could be, who knows for sure, besides God.
        Yes, megachurch could be one way to do one-size-fits-all but at the same time, does the megachurch do good with outreach? Are they actually preaching truth and ministering to the community? There really isn’t a problem with the megachurch as long as they are preaching truth and not fluff.

  7. says

    Mark has a lot of good stuff to contribute to the Kingdom. Some of his stuff I like and some I do not. I do think he has a problem when it comes to those who think differently. Of course as comments on this blog whenever Matt posts on Mark proves that his critics calling him a mud slinger are two faced hypocrites, because they do the same thing.

    • says

      This is a bunch of Mark Driscoll apologism, and it drives people away from the church. It’s in part because of people making excuses for such outrageous, bigoted, misogynist excuses for “leadership” as Driscoll’s approach that I couldn’t stay a Christian, and I know I’m not the only one.

  8. says

    Though I appreciate your passion I greatly disagree with your “cool” accusation. I have not listened to the exhaustive MD library, but the 20+ podcasts I have heard have never remotely tried to make Christ cool or easy to follow. In fact that have communicated the very Gospel that you so passionately communicated. He doesn’t make it easier for guys follow Christ by making Him cool…rather he raises the bar for men by declaring that He is Lord. He is continually calling men to the cross to lay down their lives, die to themselves, and be CHRIST like…not cool. He has ashamedly communicated that he is called to reach men; which given the current stats of men in church is refreshing. He challenges men to be doggedly obey their God (which is the definition of love according to Christ), lay there lives down for their wives, and train up there children. Neither of those things would be found at the “cool table” in this day and age.
    I’m not saying that his preaching and teaching gift is for everybody. Thankfully the Body of Christ is filled with many different giftings, communications styles, and cultural diversity. I’m not even saying he couldn’t work on being a bit more gracious. However, if you don’t like his style, don’t listen to him. Thankfully no one is forcing you or anyone else to attend his church, listen to his podcast, or follow his manly tweets about Jesus (or Jay Z for that matter).

    • Phronsie says

      My husband feels the same way. He’s very picky when it comes to preachers and he has yet to hear anything from M.D. that would make him say that M.D. isn’t a good preacher. No, he doesn’t agree with him 100% of the time but no one agrees with everything their pastor says all the time. If they’re honest anyway…

  9. says

    If I’m reading this right, Driscoll is saying that he looks at what churches are doing, and says (my paraphrase) that many are not in line with what the bible says true Christianity should look like. Where you lose me is how it’s cool when some people say that (Don Miller, Rachel Held Evans, Matt Turner), but not Driscoll.

    • Leanne says

      I think the issue for me with Driscoll is not the fact he is trying to reach a certain demographic–churches have done that throughout history. The issue is how he is doing it. Yes, I disagree with him theologically but that doesn’t mean I don’t think he is doing no good. I disagree with him on many issues but God is using him.And yes, we can critique what other theologies teach and such….but how we critique is important. Driscoll belittles anyone who disagrees with him or is different than him. Case in point, the preachers in England who are preaching something different than Mark, he considers to be cowards. He believes male worship leaders need to stop being effeminate. Does he have to say those things in order to get his message out?
      Secondly, Mark Driscoll is a pastor. He is leading thousands of people in their spiritual walk. Don Miller, Rachel Held Evans, Matt Turner have not aspired nor claim to be disseminating the Word of God. They have raised themselves up as people on a journey to discover all that it means and can mean to be Christian. There is a difference. Yes they have influence but they are not the shepherd of a flock. Driscoll needs to rise to that title and stop demeaning others who disagree with him. He can point out where he differs from others, but treat them like brothers and sisters in Christ rather than cowards who are unworthy of being in his presence.

  10. says

    I am astonished by how far people let this weirdo get to them.Apologizing on behalf of American christians? Interviewers feeling hurt by Driscy’s words?
    What is happening?
    I can not speak (or write) for all of Holland, but people around me – of they’d known MD would say: ‘he’s mad’ and get on with their lives.
    Driscoll bashing is a nice hobby, but don’t take it too far, please. It would do you good.

  11. Kane says

    “Let’s just say this: right now, name for me the one young, good Bible teacher that is known across Great Britain. You don’t have one – that’s the problem. There are a bunch of cowards who aren’t telling the truth.”
    I saw that and couldn’t help but think what he meant. Is a “good Bible teacher” one that sells enough stuff and as willing to be in the spotlight? I’m not well-versed on “famous” pastors, or Christians overseas. I can’t help but wonder if that’s a good thing though. Maybe some that could be well known are choosing instead to, how do you say…..walk humbly with God?

    • says

      I’m an atheist and I live in the US, but even I have stumbled across the names of several well known people in British Christendom. Could it be that Driscoll is ignorant of those names because his theological focus is purely US-centric? Ethnocentrism anyone? I suspect that this guy provides a good example of the notion of “ugly American.”

  12. Phil.Heslop says

    I’m sorry – but Matt, I have to say you’ve always had a negative view on Mark. He has never claimed his marriage to be rock solid and he even opens up about his own issues within his marriage in ‘Real Marriage’.
    Don’t get wrong, I know he’s not perfect, but he has never claimed to be. He has an approach that is different to yours, Rob Bells, my Pastors, or even mine…But does that make him wrong on many issues? Not particularly. I know you take particular offense to his view on men needing to be manly men – but he’s not particularly wrong on that front, and he doesn’t deny men the right to be more emotionally open with their wives. What he has an issue with is men not taking responsibility in their marriage, not making choices, being adolescent men. Which isn’t a bad thing (speaking out against men who sit behind an Xbox all day)…is it?

    And he challenges you – be it a good or bad challenge – it’s still a challenge that challenges you right? He either challenges you to change, or challenges you to love him 🙂

      • juannyo says

        He did not say that all British people are cowards. The inference of such is quite immature. Cowardice has no geographic limitations. It is real and thrives in secret. The funny thing is that it can often be disguised as humility in the same vein as self depreciation. MD’s point is to encourage the people of God to boldly proclaim the truth even if “open minded” people choose to throw you under the double-decker bus because you disagree with them.
        How quickly we forget that neither Christ nor the Apostles shrunk back from calling out the religious folk. Some of the strongest scriptural rebukes were toward the religious. Blogs weren’t really available for character assassination back then, so I suppose martyrdom had to suffice. Yikes!

    • Leanne says

      What Pastor Driscoll has is the bad habit of taking today’s American culture and projecting it on the Bible. His habit of saying what a man’s man is and this type of man is missing in today’s church has everything to do with making people over in his own image rather than the image of Christ. The culture of Scripture and what was considered manly back then is probably a lot different than what our culture says it is.Yes, I agree with him that men need to grow up in our culture better—but so do women. I don’t care how a man or woman carry themselves–be it masculine, effeminate, wearing their heart on their sleeves, or being more task oriented (these are all personality traits which are expressions of who we are and how we see the world)–I would rather have someone trying to love God with all their being and love their neighbor as yourself. One doesn’t need to be a macho man to love God and love neighbor. One doesn’t need to be effeminate. Perhaps if we Christians would just let people be who they are and express their love for Jesus, we might actually experience God in a less shallow way.

      • Phil.Heslop says

        How Jesus was? He was a carpenter, he was a mans man, if they had rifles back then he would’ve gone hunting, he drank, he was merry and he even made the odd inappropriate joke about the righteous being like used menstruation rags.

        • Leanne says

          Those are such narrow definitions of a man’s man. It is a shame Christians are willing to accept such cliches about being a man. Those are things about doing. Yet Driscoll has shown his discuss in how effeminate men can be. There is a difference between being and doing. So therefore your limited understanding of a man’s man is sad.Yes Jesus learned carpentry, might have gone hunting, was merry and drank. But one doesn’t have to be the American Mark Driscoll type to do those things. and as I have said, every time driscoll talks about men and women issues it all centers on what men or women do. There is a being that is central.
          Driscoll has said he could never worship a wimpy Jesus who doesn’t fight back. Yet Jesus demonstrates the being of a real man–not just the doing. He not only taught being a peacemaker but he lived it out. He was one who was at peace in the face of accusations and anger. He not only taught loving God and neighbor he showed it by laying aside his rights–he had the right to prove his power in the face of false accusations, he had the right judge and punish those who would not listen–instead he suffered and died because he was sacrificial love.
          Mark is constantly taking 21st century traits of American men and women and projecting them on Scripture rather than letting Scripture speak to who we are and our culture.

          • Phil.Heslop says

            Driscoll doesn’t deny those aspects of being a Christian man – but when a manboy who would rather sit and play xbox rather than get out for a run, or chop some wood is in charge of a household…there are going to be other issues – THAT is what he is getting at.
            He is also preaching to a large proportion of the church who are walking out the doors because of the wishy-washy effeminate preaching that happens in quite a few churches.

            For the record

            1) I’m from New Zealand – where REAL men live 😛

            2) Being a real man is about partaking in ‘real man’ activities – it puts you around good, strong men – both physically and in character – it’s also about responsibility, about being responsible for your household and yourself, it’s about standing up for your beliefs and fighting for them (something many effeminate men won’t do), yes even being a peacemaker, not a fighter at times – physically and verbally – is a sign of being a real man.

            In case you haven’t ever had any sons, they are all go, they are all DO…they aren’t about BEING…they are about DOING…Mum I want to DO this, mum I want to DO that. Men are about DOING, we were made to DO, we were made to WORK, we were made to TOIL. And my belief is that men need to do more in this world, they have become far too apathetic about their beliefs, their responsibilities, their lives and God.

          • Leanne says

            The fact you would say that if there were rifles in Jesus’ day, he would be a hunter, demonstrates how Driscoll and yourself project back on the Bible our culture of today. You can no more defend that than I defend the statement–if they had golf clubs back then, Jesus would be a golfer. Or if they had computers back then, Jesus would be a blogger.
            The issue is there are effeminate men who are great husbands and fathers. There are gamers who are great fathers and husbands. So your limiting real men to outdoors stuff or certain dress codes is just the game of old…..putting up your own standard on people—adding to Scripture and oppressing people.
            In the Beatitudes, Jesus proclaims that his followers will “be” meek, hungry and thirsty for righteousness, peacemakers. And this may be news to you—you can be all those things even if you don’t match up to the standard of this culture’s “man’s man”. You don’t have to partake in “real man” activities to help provide for your household or standing up for your belief.

            Lastly, Driscoll could have said, “I encourage my British fellow believers to proclaim boldly the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Don’t let fear of losing your reputation stand in your way from boldly proclaiming Jesus is Lord. Your history is full of great, bold Christians–among which are John Wesley, GK Chesterson, CS Lewis—its your turn!! Be bold.”
            He didn’t have to call people a coward. Jesus said his followers would be known by their love. I Corinthians tells us love is patient, kind, not rude…….Mark Driscoll’s issue (despite that I disagree theologically with him because I am from the Wesleyan camp not the Calvinist camp) is not really his message as much as it is his delivery. When he states God is angry with sinners and even hates them, he is simply being a Calvinist. And I will not complain about him even though I disagree with him. But when he defines real, Godly men in the ways that he does, he is adding to the Scriptural standard. I read a piece by Driscoll where he said real church leaders need to be men who drink beer and eat meat… what about the people who believe drinking beer is not profitable for them physically or spiritually, or vegetarians? Paul states in Corinthians that if someone doesn’t eat meat, that’s fine–others who believe they can should not be a stumbling block to those who don’t. He is adding to the standard of being a “real man”. A real man follows the Beatitudes, displays the fruit of the Spirit for all to see.
            To limit being a real man to doing real man activities, leaves out and demeans those men who are still men, but are not interested in sports but intellectual activities and are trying to live out the love of God fully to all.

          • Phil.Heslop says

            ‘This cultures standard of man’s man’ – sorry, but what standard? The world is feminizing masculinity and has been for generations! It is more acceptable for a man to wear a low-cut top than it is a woman 😛
            Also re: defending my statement. Jesus made a whip. He sat down and made a bull whip….that is pretty badass and masculine. And in my opinion definitely shows more masculinity than femininity. And for the record, I actually think Jesus would’ve been too busy to go for a hunt, but I definitely think he enjoys hunting 😛

            I think the thing is, people take a quote or idea of Driscolls – e.g. ‘Men need to be a mans man’ and take it to the extreme (As does some of Driscolls examples) – but I think you all know he ISN’T saying ‘If you want to read a book over watch a UFC match, write a poem or cook your wife dinner then you are not a man’ what he IS saying is, ‘If you want to go shopping more than you do bond with other men, if you want to be a man-child and play Xbox instead of fixing the leak in your roof, or not take responsibility for your households financial situation you are not a man’. There is a MASSIVE difference in those examples – and I would hope that someone as articulate and intelligent as yourself is actually able to pick up on those – and perhaps I should suggest you listen to more of his preaching instead of just some soundbites.

            I have also yet to come across a man in my entire life who is not interested in sports or hunting or watersports or bloodsport or some kind of physical outworking of their own. Yes, even the highly intelligent at my church still enjoy going for runs and working out, heck, even a couple of them would love to come hunting with me, even just for the thrill of the chase, not necessarily to get a kill. Likewise, I have yet to meet a man who is a vego by choice.

            And I believe Driscoll shows the Beatitudes, especially if you listen to him preach across a range of topics. Do I agree with him on EVERYTHING? Nope. Sure don’t. But I do happen to agree with him on this topic, the need for men to be MEN, not to be afraid of breaking a nail.

          • Leanne says

            Well, as far as coming across men who are not interested in hunting, blood sports….I have a few who I could introduce you to. One would have been my grandfather. He didn’t care much for watching a game in person or on tv. He liked to spend time outside but not really to hunt. He would go out “hunting” and sit under a tree all day. There was no thrill in chasing the hunt.I have a couple of male friends who are vegetarian by their own choice. So I guess you haven’t met everyone.
            I am not saying you shouldn’t be into sports, hunting etc. I am saying stop limiting the definition of man to your narrow view. There are great men who are loving God daily who do not live out what you have described or the standards upon which Mark speaks of manly traits. Anything beyond Scripture—is adding to the standard by which we have been asked to live. Where does it say in Scripture that a man has to eat meat? Where does it say a real man watches sports? Where does it say in Scripture real men hunt?

            I am not saying Driscoll doesn’t preach the Beatitudes. I am saying when he states his qualities of a manly man, he is adding cultural standards and our cultures understanding of manhood onto Scripture. And unless you all can give me some verses which say real men drink beer, watch ultimate fight clubs (which oddly enough in Jesus’s day it would mean going to the crucifixion of the criminals, and in early Christianity would probably mean going to the Coliseum to watch gladiator fights as well as see Christians fed to the lions). Where does it say in Scripture that anything outside of the Beatitudes and the Fruit of the Spirit is the standard the church should be holding up?

          • Phil.Heslop says

            Where does it say in scripture that everything we do (in terms of hobbies etc) must be measured by what is in scripture?
            The reality is, Jesus culture was completely different to ours (Americas or New Zealands) and Jesus didn’t come to conform everyone to his culture. We’re meant to live in the culture which we are in. So there isn’t, in my opinion, anything wrong with projecting our culture on to what a man should be, unless it is a negative stereotype – e.g a man should perv at women at any chance he gets, even if he is in a relationship.

            And I think you’ve misunderstood me – I haven’t limited the activities to which a man can do – what I am talking about are men who do absolutely nothing that is good for them – e.g. sitting in front of the computer all day, or the t.v or going out and getting drunk with college buddies. Guys that refuse to grow up.

            For the record, a Jesus day equivalent to UFC wouldn’t be a crucifixion or a trip to see Christians fed to lions – those are both examples where one party is unfairly disadvantaged. Gladiators, yes that would’ve been similar, but more deadly.

  13. lars says

    i just want to laugh so hard at your comment, except i realize that you aren’t trolling, and are, in fact serious.
    here’s some fun facts for you:
    i’m from kansas. a lot of males who fit your narrow stereotype also live here, and have been conditioned to feel the same about their masculinity as you. males that are closest to me who fit that description are my father and brothers.
    they hung around other men like themselves, learned so-called “godly” traits from those men, and generally lived that persona
    i was also beaten, raped, and continually put down and degraded by these same men.
    they only reason other males were not allowed to date me/hit me was because they had already marked me as their property, and backed it up with scripture! fun times!
    now, i’m not a man, but i like to think that that whole belief system is a load of *ahem* horseshit.
    i am, however, a wife, a mother, and a sometimes excellent friend. so, knowing what being “effeminate” means, i can say it in no way involves weakness, as you seem to imply. in fact, through my journey in motherhood and being a spouse to someone, i can say that femininity requires a great deal of strength. not to toot my own horn or anything (i totally am) but i’m gonna go ahead and state that escaping at 18 and running away with my now husband, admitting what happened to me, accepting what happened to me, and talking about what happened to me takes more inner fortitude than i’ve ever seen any man display, and on top of that, having a baby and putting away all my self pity so i could model what health and strength means
    my husband plays xbox. and so do i! we do it together, and it’s great bonding time! so lol to that man-child stereotype.
    also, i like how your “manly-activities” completely exclude men in wheelchairs. are they not “real” men either?
    ’cause my husband does not chop wood, or run, or walk for that matter. he doesn’t participate in any of your typical man activities, and yet provides for his family, is an excellent father actively involved in his daughter’s life, a peacemaker in every sense of the word, and constantly ready to listen to me rant, listen to me cry, and listen to be try to be strong, all without being condescending.
    tl:dr-your assertions on what real men are and do are hilarious and narrow minded, but also kind of sad. i’m sorry.

    • Phil.Heslop says

      Where in my comment do I say exhibiting effeminate traits is ‘weak’? I say being an effeminate man is a sign of weakness – that is to behave more like a female than a male. I also never said the odd bit of gaming is wrong…when I refer to being a ‘gamer’ I mean 24/7, in front of a computer or tv screen, not looking after yourself or actually living life.
      Femininity does require a great deal of strength – but it is for women to live out, no? Who wants to marry a guy who takes as long in the shower as you?! A peacemaker isn’t about being a pansy, it’s about wisdom so is a null and void argument for being an overly effeminate man.

      I also think, and I mean no disrespect by this, comparing your wheel-chair bound husbands activities to an able-bodied mans activities is a null and void point of argument – that is like comparing a man and woman when it comes to breastfeeding. I also bet your husband, while he may not hunt, would like the chance, I bet he also enjoys watching sport and perhaps even the odd bit of blood sport (boxing, UFC). And for the record, as a wheel-chair bound man he can still go hunting, my sister has arranged hunting trips for a client of hers who is wheel-chair bound, yes it is a bit more difficult and usually means being flown into an area and then carried around by his mates, but his friends love doing it for him, and he loves getting behind a rifle again.

      You can not compare your femininity to a mans masculinity. What Mark Driscoll is talking about is men who display effeminate traits that go WAY beyond being emotionally open and available. He’s talking about your metro-sexual worship leader, he’s also talking about men who don’t take responsibility for their own actions, men who don’t control their sexual desires, men who don’t lead, men who don’t put their wife first, men who act like boys, not men.

      • Leanne says

        My brothers take longer than I in the shower. And they love sports, beer, NASCAR, all manly stuff……just saying.

        • says

          @Leanne and Phil: This is a refreshing discussion to read… I disagree with yas both, as my views are somewhere in-between, but in any case this was a strong disagreement discussed in a Christ-like way. This is rare online, so just thought I’d say kudos to you! 🙂
          May you both continue seeking truth and loving like Jesus.

  14. phil,chill! says

    I like the RamonesDoes Mark Driscoll like the Ramones?
    If not shall I kill myself ?
    If he does am I a girl or a boy – a feminate or a masculate?

    Really, haven’t we all got a real life person to talk to about something important?

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